| # | Time | Nick | Message |
|---|
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| # | 09:28:38 | _dkyle1 | linux |
| # | 09:29:02 | _dkyle1 | drat! wrong window! |
| # | 09:30:12 | phasefx | peeping tom |
| # | 09:30:20 | jeff grins |
| # | 09:30:35 | jeff | today is a python + perl + php day. |
| # | 09:30:38 | jeff | i will not go insane. |
| # | 09:30:58 | miker_ | jeff: just keep repeating that to yourself |
| # | 09:31:22 | phasefx | python + perl + php + marc would push you over the edge for sure |
| # | 09:31:31 | jeff | that'll come soon. |
| # | 09:32:11 | jeff | if i could find a decent AGI lib for python (and i've found a few, they just don't look very promising), i could eliminate perl from today's list. |
| # | 09:32:19 | _dkyle1 | phasefx: I swear I was just stopping to tie my shoe! |
| # | 09:33:08 | Dyrcona dislikes Python....something about whitespace being syntactically significant. |
| # | 09:33:09 | miker_ | jeff: add in javascript for fun and profit |
| # | 09:33:19 | miker_ | Dyrcona++ |
| # | 09:33:49 | jeff | Dyrcona: it just forces you to learn how to use your preferred editor more efficiently :) |
| # | 09:34:25 | wlayton | Question: Is the file Open-ILS/xul/staff_client/application.ini still needed? Can it be safely removed from the source tree? |
| # | 09:34:42 | _dkyle1 | jeff: AGI lib? care to share what you're up to? |
| # | 09:34:53 | wlayton | Silly people like me often confuse it with the application.ini living under Open-ILS/xul/staff_client/build/ |
| # | 09:35:50 | jeff | _dkyle1: overdue notifications via phone with as much detail as we can give 'em. people are nervous about overdue phone calls generating increased return call volume saying "but what do i have checked out? who has overdue items at this number, etc" |
| # | 09:35:58 | jeff | _dkyle1: might have mentioned this before. it was delayed. |
| # | 09:36:35 | jeff | starting simple, and i'm just pushing what i could do natively in extensions.conf, in terms of stitching things together. |
| # | 09:37:21 | miker_ | Dyrcona: http://open-ils.org/~miker/no_i_plus_plus_in_python.jpg |
| # | 09:37:36 | _dkyle1 | jeff: see what happens when you provide services that increase patronage? |
| # | 09:37:55 | jeff | roughly: "2 patrons at this number have a total of 8 library items that are overdue. the oldest item is now 21 days overdue. please consult your checkout receipt or your online account at $URL for more information, or visit the circulation desk at the library" |
| # | 09:38:25 | Dyrcona | miker_: :) |
| # | 09:38:35 | jeff | then later, adding "this call is regarding patrons with drivers license ending in 0123 and library card ending in 9876" |
| # | 09:38:41 | jeff | or whatever, as needed. |
| # | 09:39:00 | Dyrcona | Quick question, I hope: where should I look if I want to see how the config.circ_matrix_* tables are used? |
| # | 09:39:04 | phasefx | wlayton: build/ is populated from things living outside of build/ during the make process |
| # | 09:39:41 | Dyrcona | in Circ.pm? |
| # | 09:39:43 | jeff | _dkyle1: i love that phone_renewal uses a menu to record sound files. |
| # | 09:39:49 | phasefx | wlayton: folks only need what's in build/ to use a staff client |
| # | 09:40:19 | _dkyle1 | jeff: sounds good, GRPL has such a high calls/phone lines value, we keep the messages brief |
| # | 09:41:10 | _dkyle1 | jeff: us too, Dave, the coder we hired for the non EG parts, did a nice job |
| # | 09:41:52 | jeff | _dkyle1: did you do overdue calls in the previous ILS, and did you see significant return call volume increase when you started? |
| # | 09:44:37 | _dkyle1 | jeff: previously, the consortium made the phone calls for GRPL, we stuck pretty much to what was already in place |
| # | 09:45:22 | _dkyle1 | jeff: message wise, since we have huge patron overlap with that consortium - no increase I'm aware of |
| # | 09:46:11 | miker_ | Dyrcona: unless you're using in-db circ, they're not used yet (I suggest sticking with the scripts instead of in-db until 1.6, when a UI will appear) |
| # | 09:46:24 | Dyrcona | k |
| # | 09:46:34 | wlayton | phasefx: That makes sense. Thanks. |
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| # | 10:58:40 | dbs | hmm. is there any info on how "enable patron opt-in" works, in practice? we have some situations where we would like to use that feature. |
| # | 11:00:28 | miker_ | dbs: it requires staff to say "yes, the person allows us to look at their stuff" whenever the ws_ou <> usr.home_ou |
| # | 11:01:00 | dbs | miker_: right, so staff need VIEW_USER perms at the patron's work_ou? |
| # | 11:01:02 | miker_ | hrm.. in trunk it may allow an org unit setting for valid-depth |
| # | 11:01:24 | miker_ | dbs: patron's home_ou |
| # | 11:01:37 | BenO has quit IRC |
| # | 11:01:38 | miker_ | and, also, the patron has accepted the waiver |
| # | 11:01:39 | dbs | err, yes, patron's home_ou :) |
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| # | 11:01:50 | miker_ | so, both of those |
| # | 11:02:36 | dbs | so if a staff person has VIEW_USER perms at the patron's home_ou, then there's nothing to stop them from looking up the patron's info anyway, right? |
| # | 11:06:59 | miker_ | right |
| # | 11:07:08 | miker_ | arg |
| # | 11:07:13 | miker_ | yeah |
| # | 11:07:15 | miker_ | no |
| # | 11:07:21 | miker_ | I'd have to look at the code |
| # | 11:08:49 | dbs | heh, damn man, one of us will have to - leave it on my plate, then |
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| # | 11:46:41 | wlayton | dbs: Looking through the Conifer list archives, I saw that you got the Z39.50 server up and running. Can you search by ISBN using it? |
| # | 11:47:03 | dbs | wlayton: yes, through the sophisticated "map attributes 7 and 8 to keyword searches" :) |
| # | 11:47:20 | dbs | wlayton: zed.concat.ca:210/CONIFER if you want to point a client at it |
| # | 11:48:04 | dbs | there's one niggling bug, an off-by-one error where you can't retrieve the last result in a result set, which will render many ISBN searches useless :( |
| # | 11:48:27 | dbs | otherwise, life is good |
| # | 11:50:15 | wlayton | dbs: So I have <map use="7"><index>keyword</index></map> ? (or s/keyword/identifier/ ?) |
| # | 11:50:31 | dbs | eg.keyword is what you want, I think |
| # | 11:50:50 | dbs | from the bib attribute sets listed in SRU explain, or in SRU.pm |
| # | 11:51:44 | lisppaste6 | dbs pasted "conifer z39.50 conf" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79835 |
| # | 11:52:19 | wlayton | dbs: Thanks. I think we need this for VDX, so hopefully that bug won't get in the way. |
| # | 11:52:34 | dbs | wlayton: beautiful, the holdings format that I added is VDX-compliant |
| # | 11:52:44 | dbs | (RACER runs on VDX) |
| # | 11:53:01 | dbs | seems to be working for RACER, so you should be good to go |
| # | 11:53:43 | wlayton | dbs: That's great! |
| # | 11:54:09 | dbs | the only problem is that VDX doesn't really support Unicode yet, so diacritics get mucked up in output; you might be able to teach simple2zoom how to serve up results in MARC8, and that would be a nice contribution :) |
| # | 11:54:25 | dbs | (it's only 2009, this Unicode thing is a flash in the pan eh?) |
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| # | 12:17:15 | miker_ | dbs: that's already done, if you tell it to retrieve the records in marc format instead of xml |
| # | 12:17:19 | miker_ | re marc8 |
| # | 12:17:35 | miker_ | dbs: see xml2marc-yaz.conf |
| # | 12:17:45 | dbs | miker_: yeah, I've gone down that path |
| # | 12:17:49 | dbs | and it hasn't worked |
| # | 12:18:02 | miker_ | hrm... was returning data for me |
| # | 12:18:08 | miker_ | what ... was it not doing? |
| # | 12:18:24 | dbs | so somebody going down that path and putting a working config together (say, in the wiki) would be making a nice contribution |
| # | 12:18:32 | dbs | dunno, it's a low priority |
| # | 12:20:56 | dbs | people seem to want real circ rules set up and stuff :) |
| # | 12:25:25 | wlayton | dbs: I'm guessing that you also created a startup script to automatically start simple2zoom as a daemon. |
| # | 12:26:18 | dbs | wlayton: heh, no, "quick and dirty dbs" has a subdirectory in his home directory that contains the simple2zoom config files and he starts the script manually |
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| # | 12:27:03 | dbs | the script is "simple2zoom -c conifer.conf -- -f conifer-format.conf localhost:2210 laurentian.concat.ca:2210 172.17.100.167:2210 > /dev/null 2>&1 &" :) |
| # | 12:27:07 | wlayton | dbs: You're in good company! |
| # | 12:28:03 | dbs | (our load balancer listens on port 210 and forwards to port 2210 on the server, to avoid having to run simple2zoom with elevated privs) |
| # | 12:30:49 | dotg has joined #OpenILS-Evergreen |
| # | 12:31:36 | dotg | hope u r all fine... |
| # | 12:32:10 | dotg | r there any videos for evergreen (how to's)? |
| # | 12:33:04 | dotg | can someone take me thro the book adding process and patron booking process |
| # | 12:33:15 | dotg | thanks in advance |
| # | 12:34:54 | dbs | dotg: there are a few videos at http://open-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=community_tutorials |
| # | 12:37:18 | dotg | dbs:thanks a million I will download them 1st thing tomorrow morning |
| # | 12:38:29 | dotg | by the way is this the right place to chat.. or i need to narrow down to a specific support staff? |
| # | 12:42:39 | dbs | this is a community IRC channel, it's all about the chat. |
| # | 12:47:15 | dotg | may i ask.. once i registered my computer.. is it stuck to a particular library? i.e. if i try login with a user from a different user it wont work? |
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| # | 12:52:23 | phasefx | dotg: if you append -profilemanager to the end of your xulrunner command, you can juggle multiple workstation registrations pretty easily, if that becomes important |
| # | 12:54:04 | phasefx | incidentally, sylvar taught me something I didn't know about xulrunner, you can specify -P "profilename" with xulrunner |
| # | 12:56:33 | dotg | phasefx: Sorry am lost. xulrunner = staff client? |
| # | 12:58:06 | phasefx | right, xulrunner is the runtime that powers the staff client. Are you using windows? If so, modify your staff client shortcut (right-click, properties). That first text field is invoking xulrunner |
| # | 13:01:40 | phasefx | see http://www.georgialibraries.org/pines/creating-evergreen-workstation-profiles |
| # | 13:02:15 | dotg | great |
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| # | 13:19:50 | dbs has used phasefx's /etc/hosts and mixed-case hostname tricks in the past with great success as well |
| # | 13:21:45 | dotg | am i able to close the tabs that appear right at the top of the staff client? How can this be done? |
| # | 13:22:04 | phasefx | I think that was murphy's trick first |
| # | 13:22:57 | phasefx | dotg: control+w is a keyboard shortcut for closing the active tab. Later versions of Evergreen have a visible red X that you can click on, but that might not exist with yours |
| # | 13:23:05 | phasefx | File->Close Tab also works |
| # | 13:25:52 | dotg | great |
| # | 13:26:21 | dotg | how do I customise first tab window? |
| # | 13:27:50 | phasefx | edit /openils/var/web/xul/server/index.xhtml (I think) |
| # | 13:29:42 | Dyrcona runs screaming down the hallway. |
| # | 13:30:25 | Dyrcona is trying to turn the circ privileges and parameters from a Horizon install into something that makes sense in EG. |
| # | 13:31:35 | dotg | am thinking this is a server path.. not on the staff client. |
| # | 13:32:56 | phasefx | Dyrcona: may be best not handle it as if you were "migrating" permissions. Just create some roles (permission groups) in EG and assign people to the roles |
| # | 13:33:22 | phasefx | make it very high-level. What do you need to do, circ? cataloging? There you go |
| # | 13:34:06 | Dyrcona | Mua ha ha! |
| # | 13:34:09 | phasefx | dotg: that is correct. You can modify the local client to determine what loads in the default tab if need be |
| # | 13:34:16 | phasefx | but I wouldn't recommend it |
| # | 13:36:24 | Dyrcona is configuring circ duration rules. |
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| # | 13:36:46 | Dyrcona is looking at circ_modifier and the circ scripts. |
| # | 13:39:02 | phasefx | circ policy is another good thing to start over with if you can get away with it.. start with high-level principles, and try to keep the exceptions few in number |
| # | 13:39:34 | phasefx | that said, what we have is very flexible, so you can likely mimic the previous system exactly if you put a lot of effort into it |
| # | 13:39:53 | Dyrcona | We might do that. There has been some discussion about making things a little more uniform in the consortium lately, particularly since we know we'll need a new ILS in the next two years or so. |
| # | 13:40:06 | Dyrcona | phasefx; Yes. |
| # | 13:41:06 | Dyrcona | Originally, I put our 74 itypes from Horizon in as circ_modifiers, but now I think I don't need that many. |
| # | 13:43:18 | Dyrcona | We have 10 different types just for VHS and DVD that I can probably shrink to 2 in EG. |
| # | 13:43:48 | phasefx | "item types" tend to get overloaded |
| # | 13:44:26 | Dyrcona | Yep. In Horizon that control circ and requests and other things, so they tend to get cluttered when folks ask for "exceptions." |
| # | 13:44:35 | phasefx | you can even base circulation behavior off of bib data like the item type and item form if you wanted. Do away with a lot of item-level criteria :) |
| # | 13:44:44 | phasefx | record type, that is |
| # | 13:45:02 | Dyrcona | Yes, I was looking at that just before I hopped in the channel. |
| # | 13:45:19 | Dyrcona | I think I'm going to go with circ_modifiers for now. |
| # | 13:45:25 | phasefx | it's the easy way out :) |
| # | 13:45:45 | Dyrcona | I won't put any in for items that get our "default" rule (which varies depending on where the circulation is happening). |
| # | 13:46:04 | phasefx | making use of the normal/short/long and normal/high/low rule variants is another way to keep your circ modifier count down |
| # | 13:46:24 | phasefx | and you can migrate the legacy itype as a stat cat for statistical purposes |
| # | 13:46:31 | Dyrcona | Not gonna do that, though. I decided it would make things more complicated. |
| # | 13:46:49 | phasefx | yeah, it's all a tradeoff.. where do you put your complexity? |
| # | 13:47:18 | Dyrcona | Hmm... didn't think of adding the itype as a stat_cat.... I created "collection" as a stat cat. |
| # | 13:47:28 | phasefx likes the idea of item attribute templates setting circ modifiers and the relative high/low fields during cataloging |
| # | 13:47:55 | Dyrcona | At first, I liked the high/low fields, but then I thought about how it would in practice. |
| # | 13:48:26 | Dyrcona | I thought it would be nice for the cataloguers, since we could 1 basic duration rule and a few exceptional, extra rules. |
| # | 13:48:54 | Dyrcona | the default would be 7/14/21, and I could tell the cataloguers to put 3 in for books, and 1 for DVDs, etc. |
| # | 13:49:04 | phasefx | it'll be nicer if the item attribute editor could run "simulations" to show what the actual duration and fines would be for a given set of relative values |
| # | 13:50:06 | Dyrcona | However, our members don't agree on number of renewals, so I decided to make a set of 84 rules based on all of our possible permutations of duration and renewal count, with the extended/normal/shrt being the same value in each individual rule. |
| # | 13:50:11 | phasefx | but that's actually hard to do with the circ scripts because they're so flexible.. might be easier to do with the in-db circ behavior.. but you'd still likely need a drop-down for patron profiles, etc. |
| # | 13:50:41 | phasefx nods |
| # | 13:50:49 | Dyrcona | now, i'm working on the scripts. |
| # | 13:50:57 | phasefx | you could have branching logic in the scripts per library, too |
| # | 13:51:40 | Dyrcona | i am thinking i'll do a two-level lookup: first the currentLocation.shortname will tell me which map to use to get the circ modifier config from. |
| # | 13:51:56 | Dyrcona | then, the circ modifier will determine which rules to assign. |
| # | 13:52:04 | phasefx | that sounds cool |
| # | 13:52:12 | Dyrcona | if there's no circ modifier, a set of defaults for the library will be used. |
| # | 13:52:50 | Dyrcona | yeah, since it can all go into circ_item_config.js it should not be too difficult to maintain. |
| # | 13:54:07 | Dyrcona | About the branching logic, something we are considering is using the currentLocation for fine rules and possibly the circ_lib from asset.copy for duration rules, but I'll look at that once I have something "basic" working. |
| # | 13:55:51 | Dyrcona | It's hard to get 35 library directors and their friends/boards to agree on these things |
| # | 13:56:31 | miker_ | simulations will be / are possible with the in-db circ stuff, but, again, 1.6 :) |
| # | 13:57:43 | Dyrcona | that would be handy. we have a little tool (RqTool) for testing hold parameters in Horizon. |
| # | 13:58:19 | phasefx | bbl, meeting |
| # | 14:05:25 | dotg | may I ask.. if u hv interconnected libraries.. which report show the transfer of books... |
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| # | 15:51:35 | dbs | hey, isn't that K-12 announcement on the planet kind of a lie? |
| # | 15:52:08 | jeff | which part? i've wondered how accurate the claim is. |
| # | 15:52:23 | dbs | that it's the first |
| # | 15:52:43 | dbs | there was some guy on the list back in 2007 who single-handedly set up his K-12 school with Evergreen, IIRC |
| # | 15:53:06 | jeff | mieg said it as ``one of the first school libraries'' |
| # | 15:53:22 | jeff | i wondered when i saw "first K-12 library" come across planet. |
| # | 15:54:08 | _bott_ | There's another K-12 here in Michigan that did so over a year ago, yes |
| # | 15:54:22 | dbs | next story on the planet: "Evergreen community disputes veracity of Equinox press release" |
| # | 15:54:55 | _bott_ | Carson City |
| # | 15:55:29 | dbs | _bott_++ # whether memory or searching skillz, I salute you |
| # | 15:55:56 | _bott_ | Nov. 11, 2007, he contributed some holdings import code |
| # | 15:56:03 | _bott_ | searching ;) |
| # | 15:56:15 | jeff | specifying the date was a dead giveaway :) |
| # | 15:56:21 | _bott_ | oops, make that the 14th ...searching good ...typing bad |
| # | 15:56:54 | dbs | Travis something? |
| # | 15:57:04 | _bott_ | Yep |
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| # | 16:16:35 | berick | hm |
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| # | 16:29:09 | kgs | dbs yes, it was an error we sent out the wrong version of that release. it was my fault the wrong version went out. |
| # | 16:29:25 | dbs | kgs: uh-oh :( |
| # | 16:29:44 | dbs | redact the RSS feeds! |
| # | 16:29:47 | kgs | I'm not even saying uh-oh. stuff happens. things go wrong. |
| # | 16:30:17 | kgs | I really did that just to give you something to talk about! |
| # | 16:31:30 | kgs | dbs I think calling it a "lie" is a tiny bit strong, don't you think? |
| # | 16:31:56 | dbs | kgs: yes, that's why it was qualified |
| # | 16:32:11 | kgs | good. |
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| # | 17:01:19 | kgs | dbs and jeff what's the name of that school in Michigan? I'd like to write them. |
| # | 17:01:24 | Roger2k10 | I get an error when I try to go to "server settings" in the staff client. This message shows up in the apache logs: Exception: OpenSRF::EX::JabberDisconnected 2009-05-07T13:59:29 main -e:0 JabberDisconnected Exception: This JabberClient instance is no longer connected to the server \n, referer: http://172.16.11.50/ |
| # | 17:16:11 | dbs | kgs: http://libmail.georgialibraries.org/pipermail/open-ils-general/2007-October/000432.html |
| # | 17:20:20 | kgs | and there it is! http://opac.carsoncity.k12.mi.us/opac/en-US/skin/default/xml/index.xml |
| # | 17:20:57 | dbs | heh, still pointing to galileo and all |
| # | 17:23:56 | Roger2k10 | everything else in the staff client seems to work... |
| # | 17:26:32 | kgs | ok, I wrote the director |
| # | 17:28:28 | kgs | offered her some swag. :) |
| # | 17:29:54 | berick | dbs: is there any code around that can turn an Accept-Language header into something EG can understand? |
| # | 17:30:40 | dbs | berick: what we use in the staff client is braindead, because we force the staff client to only use a very simple Accept-Language header |
| # | 17:31:37 | berick | right.. |
| # | 17:32:02 | dbs | DojoSrf.js is rather braindead too, if I recall correctly |
| # | 17:35:53 | berick | actually, this'll be simple, assuming what I'm looking at is typical |
| # | 17:36:55 | dbs | simple would be good |
| # | 17:38:30 | dbs | hmm - you going to munge the case from xx-yy to xx-YY? |
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| # | 18:35:46 | levani_el | hi |
| # | 18:37:24 | levani_el | i change opensrf/evergreen/ils/web/opac/images main_logo.jpg with different picture same name restart apache server ans opensrf bu nnothing changes |
| # | 18:39:11 | levani_el | have idea? |
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April 10-13