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|---|
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| # | 11:04:40 | dbs | hmm, how do y'all feel about massaging the slim MODS so that multiple titleInfo/title elements can be returned? |
| # | 11:05:49 | dbs | or at the very least, massaging the XPath so that the first titleInfo/title element is returned. use case is for bilingual MARC records that have two 245 fields, one English, one French |
| # | 11:06:00 | miker_ | dbs: I have an alternative for you .... :) |
| # | 11:06:05 | dbs | (or one Nepali, one romanized transliteration) |
| # | 11:06:18 | dbs | miker_: you usually do :) |
| # | 11:06:23 | miker_ | ;) |
| # | 11:07:47 | miker_ | so, we add a display_field flag on config.metabib_field |
| # | 11:07:50 | dbs | btw, that set of nepali records I added to the test datasets has one nice corrupt non-UTF8 field |
| # | 11:08:28 | miker_ | as part of ingest, we pull out those bits of the record, but we don't go normalizing them |
| # | 11:09:01 | miker_ | and we insert each instance into a separate row |
| # | 11:09:32 | miker_ | so, multiple 246 (translated title, I think?) fields go in separately |
| # | 11:10:05 | miker_ | then, instead of grabbing an MVR, we grab all the extracted fields from metabib.*_field_entry |
| # | 11:10:28 | miker_ | and display them as needed in the opac |
| # | 11:11:35 | miker_ | we'll need more on config.metabib_field (a label column, probably an ordinal position for the field row within the field_class) |
| # | 11:12:58 | miker_ | and, instead of "not normalizing" (or normalizing, in the case of search_field=t) there should be set of available normalizing transforms linked to each row in config.metabib_field (or a {something} separated list of such, in a text field) |
| # | 11:14:25 | miker_ | dbs: this is the idea that's been bouncing around in my head for a while ... I have not had two properly shaped tuits to rub together, though ... |
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| # | 11:29:23 | miker_ | dbs: did I frighten you away? |
| # | 11:29:25 | miker_ | :) |
| # | 11:31:18 | miker_ | dbs: anyway, the end result would be instead of an mvr object, you'd get a HoH, like { title : { proper : ['x','y'], translated : ['z'] }, author : { personal : ['rowling'] } } |
| # | 11:31:27 | dbs | miker_: sorry, my director stopped by to chat |
| # | 11:32:21 | miker_ | dbs: btw, awesome slides. thanks for 1) doing that and 2) putting them up! |
| # | 11:32:45 | jeff | say, speaking of metabibs... |
| # | 11:32:56 | jeff | miker_: any way you know of to report on "bibs with no metabib"? |
| # | 11:32:59 | dbs | ahh, but just like in that nepali.marc example, there are two ways of providing transliterations; two 245 fields, or a 245 and a linked 880 |
| # | 11:33:03 | jeff | (other than at the database level) |
| # | 11:33:37 | dbs | miker_: well, more blog posts to come to include the code snippets and such for the other bits, but I've been meaning to pull that stuff together for a long time |
| # | 11:34:07 | dbs | I do like the HoH approach though, for sure |
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| # | 11:44:24 | dbs | I'm more worried, to be honest, about why only 20 of the 98 Nepali records ingest at all; looks like an OpenSRF JSON decoding issue |
| # | 11:48:10 | miker_ | jeff: you should be able to start from bib records, go to metarecord source map, and filter where source map id is null ... that works out to (something like) SELECT {blah} FROM biblio.record_entry b LEFT JOIN metabib.metarecord_source_map m ON (b.id = m.source) WHERE m.id IS NULL; ... which is the query you want |
| # | 11:49:36 | miker_ | dbs: even if we stick with mvr, I agree we should make it more easily extended ... store the extraction bits in the db, make everthing in the mvr an array, etc |
| # | 11:50:09 | miker_ | but I'd like to move to HoH, because of the flexiblity, and it seems simpler |
| # | 11:51:51 | dbs | miker_: right. by "set of normalizing transforms" that would mean the ability to extract fields based on any XSL + XPath that you like? |
| # | 11:52:17 | dbs | we have to do this soon, or mleggott will dust off the <marc> patch for custom display configuration :) |
| # | 11:53:51 | dbs | miker_: (actually, in all seriousness, he indicated he would be willing to contribute several thousands of dollars to fund "the right way" of doing that) |
| # | 11:56:37 | jeff | miker_: no metarecord source map that i could find under the standard Bibliographic Record source, but I did find mmrsm under all sources |
| # | 11:59:12 | jeff | but i suspect that starting there will exclude bibs with no metarecord mapping... sound right? |
| # | 11:59:19 | miker_ | dbs: for "set of normalizing transforms" I post-extraction transforms, like naco-normalize, un-double-space, to-lower-case, etc ... stored procedures that act on the strings after they're pulled from the marc. right now, the normalizations are all hard-coded in perl inside the ingest app. |
| # | 11:59:40 | miker_ | jeff: right ... you won't have access to the bibs at all |
| # | 11:59:45 | miker_ | jeff: lemme look |
| # | 12:01:27 | miker_ | jeff: because Metarecord has to jump through the source map, try using that instead ... I'm not certain that it will do what you want, though |
| # | 12:03:55 | miker_ | dbs: the functions in 020.schema.functions.sql are generally what I'm referring to for normalizations. things that could be applied to an extracted field. you'd register those with any entry in config.metabib_field ... naco for search_field=t, normalize_space for display_field=t and facet_field=t (for instance) |
| # | 12:06:33 | miker_ | I can imagine more as well ... getting to that point, when combined with a PG-version-specific varient (xml stuff) of the (commented out) functions at the top of 002.functions.config.sql would allow us to move ingest entirely inside the db |
| # | 12:09:24 | jeff | miker_: yeah, i don't think that mmr or mmrsm will get me what i need, so without any link to the metarecord from Bibliographic Record, i'll just pass this up to someone with db access. thanks! |
| # | 12:16:27 | miker_ | jeff: well, my uncertainty stems from the code that attempts to build complex multijoin queries, but if it ends up doing what (in this situation) I would expect, then it will give you what you want. The problem is you've got mixed inner and outer joins in the metarecord case (SELECT blah FROM biblio.record_entry b LEFT JOIN metabib.metarecord_source_map m ON (b.id = m.source) INNER JOIN metabib.metarecord mr ON (mr.id = m.metarecord) WHERE mr |
| # | 12:19:42 | jeff | looks like your message truncated at "WHERE mr" |
| # | 12:20:11 | miker_ | SELECT blah FROM biblio.record_entry b LEFT JOIN metabib.metarecord_source_map m ON (b.id = m.source) INNER JOIN metabib.metarecord mr ON (mr.id = m.metarecord) WHERE mr.id IS NULL; |
| # | 12:20:18 | miker_ | is what we want, but in other, similarly structured situations we want the inner join to trump the left join, and so ... we need to test) ... (just for a more detailed explanation ;) ) |
| # | 12:21:21 | jeff | this whole thing is them further complicated by the fact that i'm really trying to limit it to bibs with attached volumes/copies. :) |
| # | 12:21:34 | miker_ | heh |
| # | 12:21:56 | jeff | i'm going to stop worrying about it (and by that, i mean i'm going to worry about other things) for now |
| # | 12:22:07 | miker_ | the "do we let you effectively write sql, or make it marginally simple to use" delema strikes again |
| # | 12:22:47 | jeff | right. :) |
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| # | 12:43:58 | dbs looks at MODS stylesheet generating valid UTF8 output in SuperCat, and MODS3 / MODS32 stylesheets generating crap UTF8 output in SuperCat |
| # | 12:44:48 | dbs notes that MODS output does not have an explicit "encoding='UTF8'" attribute in the XML declaration, while the MODS3/MODS32 do (due to corresponding XSL statement) |
| # | 12:45:27 | dbs also notes that xsltproc generates valid UTF8 output for all three, casts a gamy eye at XML::LibXML / XML::LibXSLT |
| # | 12:49:21 | miker_ | dbs: casting that eye at the perl bindings? |
| # | 12:50:14 | dbs | yeah, ish. although right now I'm going to cast it at lunch |
| # | 12:50:23 | miker_ | good idea |
| # | 12:54:11 | miker_ | dbs: not that oclc is the be-all/end-all, but http://www.oclc.org/bibformats/en/2xx/245.shtm says 245 can't repeat ... looks like 880 or 242 and 246 should be used instead, but IANAC |
| # | 13:07:14 | dbs | miker_: yeah, but this is common practice in non-English countries |
| # | 13:07:43 | dbs | UANAIC (You are not an international cataloguer) |
| # | 13:10:01 | dbs | (heh, and for what it's worth, it looks like even MODS3.3 doesn't pull in 880 fields, while it handles duplicate 245s just fine) |
| # | 13:13:09 | dbs | but mapping the second 245 to a 246 31 looks like the right sort of way to handle it, maybe |
| # | 13:13:18 | dbs : blah blah blah |
| # | 13:15:31 | jeff | i sometimes wish that reports could be set (per report) to not output anything if zero rows were returned. |
| # | 13:15:36 | jeff | things like cataloging QA reports |
| # | 13:15:37 | miker_ | dbs: well, right, I'm thinking specifically about usmarc/marc21 |
| # | 13:17:25 | jeff | where it would be nice to have output in a folder, or email about a report be the exception that said "hey, something's wrong!" |
| # | 13:17:31 | jeff | and no news would be good news. :) |
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| # | 15:00:48 | dbs | as an aside, people were pretty surprised that 1.4 is out; I guess it's getting close to time to announce that eh? |
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| # | 15:03:52 | miker_ | haha |
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| # | 15:04:54 | dbs | (although - did we roll a package with my fix for my "can't view report output" bug?) |
| # | 15:06:04 | miker_ | dbs: didn't see that one, so ... I did not |
| # | 15:06:49 | dbs | I thought we might be holding off to see if any other bugs turned up |
| # | 15:10:50 | phasefx finishes scrollback, "Btw, stating the obvious here, I see nothing wrong with the pull and parse MARC in the details page thing.. but it's not good for display in search results |
| # | 15:12:23 | miker_ | phasefx: agreed. but HoH replacing mvr would be good on both, IMO ... for marc-on-detail-page, I'd rather see client-side xml chopping happen, but that may not be practical |
| # | 15:13:40 | phasefx | HoH would be good for switching bib formats under the hood too, if folks were so inclined to try that |
| # | 15:13:52 | dbs | phasefx: the problem from this side of the fence is using <marc field="245" subfield="a"> rather than <div class="marc 245a"> or something like that - just XHTML friendliness |
| # | 15:14:21 | dbs | (IIRC correctly, haven't looked at UPEI's implementation for months) |
| # | 15:14:31 | phasefx | hrmm, I thought xhtml would let you use madeup tags, and just rely on CSS to style them |
| # | 15:14:44 | dbs | hah! |
| # | 15:14:54 | phasefx is obviously isolated in the mozilla world :) |
| # | 15:15:00 | dbs | maybe <upei:marc> :) |
| # | 15:15:01 | phasefx | and not really a web developer |
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| # | 15:20:14 | miker_ | phasefx: it (xhtml) does, but that's not well supported in browsers |
| # | 15:20:34 | miker_ | ffx2 can sorta/kinda do it, IE 6/7, not so much |
| # | 15:21:30 | phasefx | mm |
| # | 15:21:49 | phasefx | that's a non-verbal noise, not a browser abbreviation |
| # | 15:27:08 | dbs reads the XHTML Modularization spec a bit, doubts that anyone intends to put together an XHTML module to actually conform |
| # | 15:28:30 | miker_ | I attempted to make marcxml work via pure-css |
| # | 15:28:35 | miker_ | back in the day |
| # | 15:28:46 | miker_ | there are just some things I couldn't get working |
| # | 15:28:52 | miker_ | but it "works" |
| # | 15:29:16 | miker_ | there are just some box-model hacks that have to be hard-coded, I think |
| # | 15:29:27 | miker_ | "works" in ffx |
| # | 15:29:46 | jeff | would it be correct to say that the current "shelf browser" sorts only on call number? |
| # | 15:37:24 | miker_ | jeff: yes, it's a virtual shelf, sorting all call numbers together. tie-breaking is (more or less) location, then order of insertion |
| # | 15:37:34 | miker_ | location being owning_lib |
| # | 15:52:40 | jeff | "more or less"? :) |
| # | 15:53:49 | miker_ | back to opac, another big advantage to HoH is speed -- mvr is relatively ML expensive, it parses the marc xml and runs a pile of xpath ... in perl |
| # | 15:56:09 | miker_ | jeff: well ... see: http://svn.open-ils.org/trac/ILS/browser/trunk/Open-ILS/src/perlmods/OpenILS/Application/Storage/Publisher/asset.pm#L201 (and the methods that follow, cn_browse_pageup and cn_browse_target) |
| # | 15:56:17 | jeff | $ fortune -s | sed 's/$/ ... in perl/' |
| # | 15:56:21 | jeff | There will be big changes for you but you will be happy. ... in perl |
| # | 15:56:26 | dbs | and back to "arbitrary XML elements in XHTML" - http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/conformance.html suggests that there's a a fair bit more to it than just dropping in some new element ;) |
| # | 15:56:27 | jeff | Slow day. Practice crawling. ... in perl |
| # | 15:59:49 | miker_ | dbs: indeed |
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| # | 16:39:57 | atheos | where is the public log for this channel? |
| # | 16:41:53 | dbs | atheos: http://evergreen-ils.org/irc_logs I think |
| # | 16:42:10 | atheos | thank you |
| # | 16:42:19 | dbs | linked from http://evergreen-ils.org/irc.php :) |
| # | 16:43:59 | atheos | ugh, no search feature. hehe |
| # | 16:44:21 | phasefx | google may have some of it, the searchbox on the website |
| # | 16:44:30 | atheos | ah. good call. |
| # | 16:44:42 | phasefx | though I recently changed the url scheme slightly on them |
| # | 16:45:18 | atheos | no luck. I was having a discussion in here about a sip based captive portal. anyone remember giving me a recommendation? |
| # | 16:45:30 | dbs | atheos: I could grep my personal logs |
| # | 16:45:46 | phasefx | bluesocket is the only one I know that works with EG |
| # | 16:45:56 | phasefx | heard good things and bad things about it |
| # | 16:46:04 | atheos | that's the one. I know it was blue something |
| # | 16:46:29 | atheos | our board wants a captive portal that authenticates against evergreen |
| # | 16:47:01 | atheos | and they really want something we don't have to pay for :P |
| # | 16:47:57 | phasefx | there may be something open source out there that intercepts http traffic, but I doubt it would support SIP |
| # | 16:48:25 | atheos | we have a captive portal that will authenticate against Radius |
| # | 16:48:44 | atheos | and I can dream up a way to integrate that into Evergreen, but I don't have time for it |
| # | 16:55:47 | jeff | heh |
| # | 16:56:03 | jeff | reading scroll, i was just thinking "i wonder how hard it would be to do a sip backend to radius" |
| # | 16:57:27 | atheos | openradius will read from postgresql, and allow you to define the table names and structure. |
| # | 16:57:41 | atheos | schema for evergreen would have to be altered a bit though |
| # | 16:58:57 | miker_ | atheos: CREATE VIEW :) |
| # | 16:59:05 | miker_ | and with that, it's dinner time |
| # | 16:59:40 | atheos | that just went right over my head. |
| # | 16:59:48 | atheos | but, that's alright |
| # | 17:00:10 | jeff | atheos: you can create a view in postgresql that would essentially create a virtual table that uses the schema that freeradius expects. |
| # | 17:00:21 | jeff | atheos: in theory, i think there might be some potential pitfalls |
| # | 17:00:23 | dbs | could be tricky :) |
| # | 17:00:24 | atheos taking notes |
| # | 17:00:53 | jeff | atheos: this interests me. it might be cleaner than trying to do radius -> sip -> evergreen |
| # | 17:01:31 | atheos | ok, well I may not be qualified to do so, but I think my board is telling me to figure this out. |
| # | 17:01:54 | atheos | which means I can dedicate 8 hours a day to do so |
| # | 17:02:37 | jeff | and creating a postgresql view would probably be easier than creating a freeradius module |
| # | 17:02:56 | atheos would rather work on the evergreen/asterisk stuff, but what can you do |
| # | 17:03:25 | jeff | "the evergreen/asterisk stuff"? |
| # | 17:03:32 | atheos | phone system |
| # | 17:03:52 | atheos | just some work we committed to |
| # | 17:04:05 | jeff | yeah, it's making phone calls here right now to notify some patrons of holds: |
| # | 17:04:08 | jeff | 26 files moved, 104 files remain. |
| # | 17:04:11 | jeff | avgtime = 56.4 - expect complete at Mon Feb 2 18:41:25 2009 |
| # | 17:04:41 | jeff | GRPL adapted some stuff from the voip-info wiki and we took what they had and tweaked it a bit for here. |
| # | 17:04:51 | jeff | here == TADL, part of Michigan Evergreen |
| # | 17:05:09 | jeff | i'm working on overdue notifications via phone this week |
| # | 17:05:20 | atheos | ah, didn't know someone was already that deep into it |
| # | 17:05:34 | jeff | (also something GRPL is doing, but we're tweaking it a bit due to how we get the data from the consortium servers) |
| # | 17:05:45 | jeff | GRPL uses a Digium card, we're making calls via SIP. |
| # | 17:07:02 | atheos | I gotta run Jeff, I'll pick your brain tomorrow on freeradius |
| # | 17:07:06 | jeff | someone here suggested what we have now go into /contrib/, and i keep forgetting to ask the guys at GRPL for their thoughts on that |
| # | 17:07:12 | jeff | atheos: adios! |
| # | 17:07:18 | atheos | I'd like to see what you have |
| # | 17:07:22 | atheos | if you've published it |
| # | 17:07:28 | jeff | not yet, but check with me tomorrow |
| # | 17:07:34 | atheos | ok, thanks. adios |
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| # | 17:50:38 | jamesrf slaps Branflakes around a bit with patsy-the-scribe |
| # | 17:50:45 | jamesrf | er |
| # | 17:53:49 | dbs | sorry about your college, BC folks :( |
| # | 17:55:18 | jamesrf | dbs: what college? |
| # | 17:56:10 | dbs | jamesrf: the one that had planned to migrate this summer |
| # | 18:00:45 | jeffdavis | dbs: we've still got a college on our schedule AFAIK |
| # | 18:01:00 | jamesrf | eh, yeah, we lost one but we still have another |
| # | 18:01:15 | jamesrf | still i'm glad anything that slows the tide of migrations |
| # | 18:01:24 | jamesrf | i mean for workload |
| # | 18:01:25 | dbs | jamesrf: ah, okay, the person who came to my talk was the one that you lost I guess :) |
| # | 18:02:15 | jamesrf | dbs: i'm sure they'll all be clamouring after you guys go live |
| # | 18:03:15 | dbs | well, once we go live and finish off whatever bits we can. our contributions have been a lot more limited than we had hoped, ergo slower pace of some development. |
| # | 18:03:19 | dbs | bad conifer! |
| # | 18:03:47 | dbs | must head back home now or risk marital discord. sitka++ |
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| # | 18:26:09 | Branflakes has joined #openils-evergreen |
| # | 18:26:37 | Branflakes | Hi, all. |
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| # | 19:44:52 | miker_ | @later tell dbs dbs++ |
| # | 19:44:52 | pinesol | miker_: The operation succeeded. |
| # | 20:05:11 | djfiander | @karma |
| # | 20:05:11 | pinesol | djfiander: Highest karma: "dbs" (88), "miker_" (53), and "berick" (49). Lowest karma: "my_laptop" (-11), "miker" (-4), and "rhel" (-3). You (djfiander) are ranked 5 out of 276. |
| # | 20:05:28 | djfiander | your_laptop++ |
| # | 20:06:02 | djfiander | @karma bradl |
| # | 20:06:02 | pinesol | djfiander: Karma for "bradl" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1. |
| # | 20:06:29 | djfiander | so, the pantheon of Evergreen is dbs, miker_, berick, ???, me |
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| # | 21:01:00 | miker_ | dbs: nice catch on my retrieve typo |
| # | 21:01:10 | miker_ | that would'a been a pain |
| # | 21:01:23 | dbs | heh, every once in a while my typo-fetish pays off |
| # | 21:07:01 | djfiander | fuck me |
| # | 21:07:10 | dbs takes a pass |
| # | 21:07:26 | djfiander | NASIG published a "guide" for marc holdings data: http://www.nasig.org/publications_serialsholdings.cfm |
| # | 21:08:11 | djfiander | "Example A (the explanation of the 3rd 853 field" is wrong http://www.nasig.org/publications_serialsholdings_examples.cfm |
| # | 21:08:23 | djfiander | I |
| # | 21:08:24 | djfiander | am |
| # | 21:08:26 | djfiander | screwed |
| # | 21:11:29 | dbs | NASIG doesn't understand serials, they're just a group of people interested in serials |
| # | 21:12:03 | djfiander | I think the problem is that they understand serials, just not arithmetic |
| # | 21:13:46 | berick | dbs: if it's any use, i wrapped up my slides and files at acq.open-ils.org/~erickson/berick_ola.zip |
| # | 21:14:59 | dbs | berick: cool - safe ride home? |
| # | 21:15:31 | dbs | btw, got a trunk opensrf / trunk evergreen server rolling again; I feel back in the swing of things :) |
| # | 21:15:48 | berick | dbs: yeah, ride back was just fine |
| # | 21:16:19 | dbs | good, good. added radiolab to my podcast feed, looking forward to listening some time |
| # | 21:17:48 | berick | ah, cool. they have some filler episodes that are just so-so. the hour-long ones are usually really good, though |
| # | 22:02:37 | kgs_ | radiolab is great |
| # | 22:03:50 | kgs_ appreciates berick's suggestion |
| # | 22:05:00 | djfiander | if you like science podcasts, Quirks and Quarks, by CBC is also good: http://www.cbc.ca/quirks/ |
| # | 22:06:26 | berick will have to check that out |
| # | 22:11:46 | djfiander has left #OpenILS-Evergreen |
| # | 22:24:07 | jeff frowns and tries to make sense of some data |
| # | 22:24:20 | jeff | (seems to be a major part of my day) |
| # | 22:41:40 | kgs_ has quit IRC |
| # | 23:02:21 | jamesrf has joined #openils-evergreen |
| # | 23:40:28 | jamesrf has quit IRC |
April 10-13