| # | Time | Nick | Message |
|---|
| # | 01:22:47 | moodaepo_indy has joined #evergreen |
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| # | 02:39:53 | denials pushes kmlussier's release note updates; then syncs up the dev docs & DIG docs for release notes & install, and cleans up a bunch o' stuff at the same time |
| # | 02:39:58 | denials | and then goes to sleep |
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| # | 03:01:49 | denials | berick: a bit late for this year, but asciidoc's slidy backend does support notes on slides / handouts: http://groups.google.com/group/asciidoc/browse_thread/thread/3e7f1e4180e56694 |
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| # | 08:39:45 | berick | thanks denials |
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| # | 08:50:49 | tsbere hates the first of the month |
| # | 08:51:59 | bradl remembers the old PINES unicorn system would crash every 1st of the month from monthly reporting |
| # | 08:54:38 | atheos loves the first of the month. I get to submit billing for my moonlighting projects |
| # | 08:55:15 | tsbere | I get all the bounce messages from bad mailing list subscriptions on the first of the month. |
| # | 08:55:40 | tsbere | Because actually checking the email addresses they are subscribing to things might actually take effort |
| # | 08:55:42 | tsbere | >_> |
| # | 08:58:53 | hopkinsju has quit IRC |
| # | 09:04:57 | denials | @herald add dbwells Why so serials? |
| # | 09:04:57 | pinesol_green | denials: Error: I can't find dbwells in my user database. If you didn't give a user name, then I might not know what your user is, and you'll need to identify before this command might work. |
| # | 09:05:18 | denials | meh |
| # | 09:06:59 | Meliss has joined #evergreen |
| # | 09:09:09 | jeff | denials++ |
| # | 09:10:58 | dbwells | :) |
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| # | 09:21:57 | gmcharlt | denials: time to update the release notes HTML on the website? |
| # | 09:22:54 | denials | gmcharlt: we should automate the update of that, eh? |
| # | 09:23:10 | gmcharlt | denials: indeed |
| # | 09:23:26 | gmcharlt | hmm, do I have access to the webserver... |
| # | 09:24:14 | denials | updated the release notes HTML, will now update the README too. |
| # | 09:24:52 | gmcharlt | denials++ |
| # | 09:24:53 | denials | Which we might want to rename the title of to "Building and installing Evergreen" so that it fits a little nicer into the Table of Contents... |
| # | 09:25:23 | denials | gmcharlt++ # memory & keeping us on track |
| # | 09:27:27 | denials | would be slightly better SEO too |
| # | 09:27:40 | denials | okay, README is updated on the website too |
| # | 09:28:54 | denials sighs at the number of silo-y lists already on http://open-ils.org/listserv.php |
| # | 09:29:43 | denials | I guess we can stop calling the evergreen & opensrf commit lists the "SVN commit list"s |
| # | 09:29:46 | denials | :) |
| # | 09:30:16 | gmcharlt | AND DESTORY ANY SENSE OF HISTORY?!?! |
| # | 09:30:17 | gmcharlt | ;) |
| # | 09:30:29 | denials registers destorify.com |
| # | 09:30:36 | gmcharlt | heh |
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| # | 09:31:05 | gmcharlt | actually, that's a surprisingly nice typo, come to think of it |
| # | 09:31:19 | gmcharlt | de-story _should_ be a word |
| # | 09:33:00 | denials | "The reason that it took so long for us to figure out why acquisitions matching during bib loading was slow was because the pieces had been destoried across the acquisitions list, sysadmin list, cataloging list, general list, and technical discussion list, and nobody could piece it together" |
| # | 09:33:49 | jeff | you left out the reports list. |
| # | 09:33:54 | jeff | ;-) |
| # | 09:34:25 | kmlussier_ | Correction: no acquisitions list. denials was there to talk us out of it. :) |
| # | 09:34:33 | denials | jeff: hah - right, so the underlying problem was a report running against master that was causing locking escalation? :) |
| # | 09:35:20 | gmcharlt | it is a tradeoff -- keeping everybody in one place versus having separate "places" for focused discussion |
| # | 09:35:32 | jeff | there are good/bad bits |
| # | 09:35:40 | denials | kmlussier_: and thanks for listening to my pleas! It was an exaggeration for dramatic effect |
| # | 09:36:11 | gmcharlt | and regarding the sysadmin list in particular -- heard a few people say last night that they're scared of the developers^W^W^W^W not comfortable overwhelming a technical list with a bunch of operational concerns |
| # | 09:37:01 | denials | I thought that was why we had called it the "technical discussion list" on the listserv page, but the description is currently very code-oriented, I would concede |
| # | 09:37:04 | jeff | i believe there may be benefit to having less separation between 'dev' and 'sysadmin'. that said, i'm making no arguments for/against new lists. |
| # | 09:37:57 | gmcharlt is in favor of anything that gets discussion happening among catalogers, sysadmins, etc. -- particularly if some feel constrained at present -- and between all the various subgruops, but doesn't claim to know any One True Ways to encourage that |
| # | 09:38:05 | jeff | s/'dev' and 'sysadmin'/the 'dev' and 'sysadmin' communities/ |
| # | 09:38:07 | denials | AFAICT, the dev list is currently mostly about install & sysadmin and less about dev stuff |
| # | 09:38:38 | jeff | i found it interesting that "irc == devs only, and no sysadmins" |
| # | 09:39:09 | fortin has quit IRC |
| # | 09:40:38 | denials tries pointing at FUDforum's http://cvs.prohost.org/index.php/Mailing_List_Manager again for the forum-y web front end for mailing lists, should a sysadmin want to try setting it up as a test |
| # | 09:41:02 | jeff | if more lists help people communicate with each other, i'm all for it. i would encourage any that can to participate in multiple lists and act as bridges where appropriate / useful. |
| # | 09:42:19 | jeff | and if at some point some of the many lists merge with each other, great! ;-) |
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| # | 09:43:29 | denials | I did wonder whether it might make sense for people to generate mailing lists via data points. E.g. prefix subjects with "Acquisitions: blah blah" or "Sys Admin: blah blah". but maybe that's just the filtering/data-oriented geek in me |
| # | 09:43:45 | jeff | mailman has support for topic-prefixes |
| # | 09:43:52 | jeff | and users can say "i don't want to see cataloging stuff" |
| # | 09:44:07 | jeff | but that adds complexity to the act of posting / replying |
| # | 09:45:12 | denials will step away from the discussion and let the communication/web people deal with it as they best see fit |
| # | 09:45:13 | swills_ is now known as StephenGWills |
| # | 09:46:18 | collum | denials: Does the mailing list manager consolidate all the lists into a nice little format. Possibly just sorting by date? |
| # | 09:46:47 | denials | collum: http://fudforum.org is self-hosted, so you can play with it there |
| # | 09:46:56 | collum | will do |
| # | 09:47:26 | denials | but quick answer is "yes, I think it does what people want from a forum" |
| # | 09:47:29 | tsbere | I already have to scroll my folder list due to list overload. I don't know if I want to add a sysadmin list to that. :P |
| # | 09:48:17 | denials reserves the right to snap quietly if the bulk of the mail on the -general list becomes "You should ask that question on the <name> list!" |
| # | 09:48:45 | denials | Okay, well and truly done now! |
| # | 09:49:59 | denials | btw, kmlussier++ # great addition to the release notes! |
| # | 09:50:10 | denials | and sfortin++ # likewise |
| # | 09:51:58 | kmlussier_ | Thanks! It was eye-opening to see how much new stuff is coming with this release. |
| # | 09:58:52 | denials | tsbere: I still think gitstats is broken at http://git.evergreen-ils.org/gitstats/Evergreen/index.html; it looks like it's running the stats against an old checkout dir. either there's a missing "git fetch / git pull", or it's pointing at the wrong directory, or it's failing (maybe due to user perms)? |
| # | 09:58:59 | jeff | kmlussier++ |
| # | 09:59:47 | denials | kmlussier_: btw, I made you the "author" of that particular commit, so you'll take your rightful place in the git stats once the stats get updated :) |
| # | 10:00:09 | tsbere | denials: I made note to look at it after my vacation is over. |
| # | 10:00:52 | denials | tsbere++ # go vacation! get out of channel! :) |
| # | 10:01:51 | tsbere | denials: My host is still sleeping, so I am emptying my inbox of the first of the month insanity. >_> |
| # | 10:01:58 | tsbere | and the channel is a welcome distraction from that insanity. |
| # | 10:03:36 | kmlussier_ | denials++ I feel like I should break out a bottle of champagne. :) |
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| # | 10:08:01 | wlayton | kmlussier_++ |
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| # | 10:45:29 | StephenGWills | Kathy, I knew that managing MassLNC would eventually get you committed, congrats ;-P |
| # | 10:45:54 | phasefx | hehe |
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| # | 10:49:54 | kmlussier_ | StephenGWills: heh...you'll know where to find me in another few weeks. |
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| # | 11:24:14 | moodaepo_indy looks around |
| # | 11:32:07 | bshum | I'm not fully awake yet, but I'm writing up my objections to the sys admin-only list as a -1 reply in a bit. |
| # | 11:33:24 | bshum | I had thought of denials' points, but will read the scrollback to see if I missed anything else. |
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| # | 11:42:18 | gmcharlt | kmlussier_++ |
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| # | 11:58:01 | denials | senator++ # nice response |
| # | 12:03:37 | senator | thanks denials |
| # | 12:03:44 | senator | dbwells: i'm turning to rel_2_2 pullrequests, but let me know if you could use my attention on any of the 2.2-targeted serials bugfix work we were dealing with at the conference |
| # | 12:04:01 | senator | s/but/so/ # you know what i mean |
| # | 12:06:15 | denials wonders if there's any chance of a maven approach towards Java dependencies coming to an OpenSRF & Evergreen git repo - getting the deps in place for the OpenSRF 2.1.0 RC2 was annoying on Sunday, never quite finished that off to be able to test :( |
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| # | 12:07:25 | denials | kmlussier_: we need to get either your name, or MassLNC's name, or both, onto http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/2.2/_attributions.html |
| # | 12:10:39 | senator | +1 |
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| # | 12:48:18 | csharp comes in late to the sysadmin list discussion |
| # | 12:49:31 | csharp | I agree with the hesitation about starting another list for the same reasons mentioned here |
| # | 12:50:00 | csharp | I *do* think there are local system admins that don't have many community-wide resources at their disposal |
| # | 12:50:29 | denials hopes it's possible to turn evergreen-governance-l into an auto-responder telling people that evergreen-governance-l was supposed to be dead around a year ago and pointing them at eg-oversight-board :) |
| # | 12:50:56 | csharp | the admins like me and bshum and mrpeters-isl in this channel and comfortable on the mailing lists weren't really who I had in mind when I mentioned the sys admin "silo" on Saturday |
| # | 12:51:13 | csharp | denials: I'll look into that |
| # | 12:51:18 | denials | csharp++ |
| # | 12:51:43 | csharp | I'd actually like to deactivate it altogether and just keep the archives available |
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| # | 12:52:50 | bshum | csharp: To be fair, two years ago, I was strongly advocating for a sys-admin mailing list, but was pursuaded to try using existing methods of communication in the interest of open community sharing. I stand by that now, hence my reply on the topic. |
| # | 12:53:10 | bshum | (and/or I got lazy and things are working so don't fix what isn't really broken for me) |
| # | 12:53:20 | bshum | But I'm just one vote :) |
| # | 12:55:08 | csharp | my thought was maybe we set up an IRC meeting to guage interest in a regular group and try to keep traffic on the existing lists |
| # | 12:55:32 | csharp | if there is interest, we could have regular IRC meetings ala devs or reports |
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| # | 12:56:39 | denials | csharp: good idea! |
| # | 12:57:18 | phasefx | csharp++ call yourselves wardens |
| # | 12:57:22 | csharp | heh |
| # | 12:57:29 | phasefx | rangers |
| # | 12:57:31 | csharp has to run to a meeting |
| # | 12:57:33 | denials | berick: I note that http://evergreen-ils.org/~denials/eg2012_tpac.html#(28) doesn't identify "Granular search indexes" as a TPAC gap :) |
| # | 12:58:47 | berick | denials: are you referring to the all-index advanced-level-2 search builder? |
| # | 12:59:09 | denials | berick: I am |
| # | 12:59:25 | denials | or at least drop-downy access to a granular index |
| # | 12:59:35 | berick | right |
| # | 12:59:44 | berick has some LP tickets to create |
| # | 13:02:21 | denials was thinking back to phasefx's question about splitting up large batches of reingests and such |
| # | 13:02:55 | phasefx doesn't even remember that question. Need more vitamin b12 |
| # | 13:02:56 | denials | There might be some value to wrapping up tsbere's autosuggest ingest approach into a function, and then call it on progressively larger subsets |
| # | 13:03:40 | denials | e.g. 1% and commit, then 5% and commit |
| # | 13:04:18 | senator | that might have been my question |
| # | 13:04:20 | senator | and i agree |
| # | 13:04:21 | denials | thinking that getting that 1% in first would at least provide a quick payoff in terms of some functionality for autosuggest. heck, maybe 100 batches of 1% each |
| # | 13:04:51 | denials says this as the reingest on his test server is 10% of the way through after ~24 hours |
| # | 13:05:00 | denials | last time it died on a malformed MARC record :) |
| # | 13:05:09 | senator | ergh |
| # | 13:05:33 | berick | +1 to batches |
| # | 13:05:51 | bshum | Reminds me of the 1.6.1-2.0 upgrade when we ran the reingest SQL on the side in batches of 1000 bibs each. |
| # | 13:06:19 | senator | right yeah. not making admins have to start all over for things like that at upgrade time was my main thought |
| # | 13:06:33 | senator | having a subest of records workin early is a side benefit |
| # | 13:06:43 | senator | blah. lazy typing. |
| # | 13:08:05 | jeff | "our artisan bibliographic records are re-ingested in small batches by functions that source their arguments locally from sustainable sources" |
| # | 13:08:17 | senator | *mppphbbbt!* |
| # | 13:08:19 | senator | jeff++ |
| # | 13:09:03 | phasefx | where's the surgeon general's warning for MARC? |
| # | 13:34:55 | jeff | I'd like to expose acp.copy in the item attribute editor. I believe up to this point it has only been used for Acq. Are any more familiar with Acq of the opinion that exposing that column would be Bad? |
| # | 13:35:35 | jeff | I can see a permission check when updating it from the item attribute editor, but of course that might limit acq's ability to update the value... |
| # | 13:35:54 | jeff | Musing in irc before opening a launchpad wishlist before starting work on it. |
| # | 13:35:58 | phasefx | acp.copy? |
| # | 13:36:04 | jeff | er. |
| # | 13:36:09 | jeff | acp.cost :P |
| # | 13:36:12 | jeff | sorry. |
| # | 13:43:24 | senator | only thing i'd suggest is that good labels in the UI would be desirable to explain the difference between price and cost |
| # | 13:43:43 | senator | and since i imagine those labels are IDL based, I guess we're really talking about reviewing the labels /there/ |
| # | 13:57:03 | jeff | sure thing |
| # | 13:57:33 | jeff | and with the new/upcoming "hide fields in item attribute editor", they could even be hidden. |
| # | 13:58:01 | jeff | fwiw, "price" == list price billed to patron when lost/etc, "cost" == amount of money library paid to acquire item |
| # | 14:05:06 | senator | that's good for the logs. i usually forget which is which |
| # | 14:06:28 | berick | sketching out a potential 2.3 release schedule. thinking about using months as natural boundaries. http://snipurl.com/23bhiwp |
| # | 14:06:37 | fortin has quit IRC |
| # | 14:10:06 | berick | that's assuming we want to get back into the march/sept schedule, of course, which we probably still need to vote on |
| # | 14:13:20 | phasefx | seems like a sane sketch to me |
| # | 14:31:10 | senator is glad that was encrypted with 256-bit AES |
| # | 14:31:22 | berick | senator++ |
| # | 14:31:43 | senator | actually though that is a neat service to be aware of |
| # | 14:35:07 | jeff | select null from auditor.zer0knowledge; |
| # | 14:43:22 | jeff | poor little sub-utility db server. |
| # | 14:59:10 | wlayton misses his zer0knowledge t-shirt |
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| # | 15:27:47 | jeff | exposing acp.cost would of course eventually help with my current situation, where i have seven copies with multiple values for "cost" :-) |
| # | 15:48:04 | dbwells | denials: I finally got around to updating Library::CallNumber::LC to remove the "deprecated use of qw(...) as parentheses". Thanks for pointing it out. http://search.cpan.org/~dbwells/Library-CallNumber-LC-0.22/ |
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| # | 15:55:49 | jeff | dbwells++ |
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| # | 22:07:38 | denials is bending OpenSRF Java build to his will. Somewhat. |
| # | 22:16:31 | jeff is preparing ac by rec id for tomorrow |
| # | 22:26:56 | denials | jeff++ |
| # | 22:44:16 | denials | 1% of records browse-ingested makes for reasonable autosuggestion; http://laurentian-test.concat.ca/eg/opac/home?loc=105 |
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| # | 23:10:58 | bshum | denials: Wowsers, that autosuggest is super slow :( |
| # | 23:22:54 | denials | bshum: well, to be fair i've moved on to ingesting more records; so it's in the middle of the 4th percent |
| # | 23:23:16 | bshum | Heh, it started to speed up a bit after the initial stabs I did. |
| # | 23:23:18 | bshum | But true. |
| # | 23:23:25 | denials | actually doesn't seem to be too slow to me |
| # | 23:23:32 | denials | right |
| # | 23:23:39 | bshum | I think the initial loading took a few moments longer than I expected. |
| # | 23:23:41 | bshum | But now it's fine. |
| # | 23:23:50 | bshum | And pretty cool. |
| # | 23:23:53 | denials blames dojo :) |
| # | 23:23:54 | bshum | I can't wait to turn on ours |
| # | 23:23:57 | denials | senator++ |
| # | 23:24:06 | bshum | So that our patrons can tell us how crappy our bibs are :) |
April 10-13