| # | Time | Nick | Message |
|---|
| # | 00:46:33 | matt_carlson has joined #evergreen |
| # | 00:55:11 | matt_carlson has quit IRC |
| # | 01:10:37 | sndwrx has joined #evergreen |
| # | 02:06:35 | matt_carlson has joined #evergreen |
| # | 02:08:49 | darshan has joined #evergreen |
| # | 02:10:24 | darshan | i am about to install ubuntu lucid lynx 10.04 , |
| # | 02:10:37 | matt_carlson has quit IRC |
| # | 02:11:15 | darshan | i just want to knew isshould use server edition or desktop edition |
| # | 02:12:37 | darshan | i am about to install ubuntu lucid lynx 10.04 ,i just want to knew i should use server edition or desktop edition |
| # | 02:13:18 | darshan | ? |
| # | 02:13:19 | darshan | ? |
| # | 02:15:06 | sndwrx | |
| # | 02:15:23 | sndwrx | Are you installing Ubuntu for the purpose of running an Evergreen server? |
| # | 02:16:51 | denials has quit IRC |
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| # | 02:18:25 | darshan | yes |
| # | 02:19:37 | sndwrx | Well I would say server edition, since it won't include some of the unnecessary desktop extras that are present in desktop edition. |
| # | 02:20:05 | sndwrx | But take that with a grain of salt because I've yet to set up an Evergreen test environment. :) |
| # | 02:20:49 | darshan | i have to install Evergreen server-side software |
| # | 02:20:55 | darshan | but neways thnkx |
| # | 02:23:32 | sndwrx | |
| # | 02:24:00 | sndwrx | Though if I'm not mistaken, I believe I saw a Debian bundle for Evergreen, somewhere on the site. |
| # | 02:25:16 | darshan | i get a plus suggestion and green flag for installing it in ubuntu 10.04 lucid |
| # | 02:25:35 | sndwrx | Ah that's right. They offer virtual images for Evergreen 2.0.3 on Deb Squeeze and Evergreen 1.6.1.4 on Deb Lenny. |
| # | 02:26:20 | darshan | but only having one question of whether to use desktp or server edition |
| # | 02:26:32 | darshan | no |
| # | 02:26:46 | darshan | m i want to go ubuntu |
| # | 02:26:52 | sndwrx nods. |
| # | 02:27:28 | sndwrx | Again I'd say probably server, but that's somewhat dependent on your familiarity with the Linux environment. |
| # | 02:27:40 | darshan | ok |
| # | 02:27:49 | sndwrx | And considering I haven't worked with Evergreen first-hand as of yet, it's kind of like the blind leading the blind. :) |
| # | 02:27:54 | darshan | why other people are not replying |
| # | 02:28:21 | sndwrx | |
| # | 02:28:24 | sndwrx | Where are you? |
| # | 02:28:35 | darshan | from india |
| # | 02:28:41 | darshan | its 11.58am |
| # | 02:28:43 | sndwrx | Oh, neat. |
| # | 02:28:46 | darshan | :) |
| # | 02:28:51 | darshan | ok |
| # | 02:28:57 | darshan | just say me |
| # | 02:29:08 | darshan | at what time they loggin and logout |
| # | 02:29:22 | sndwrx | I'm not sure. Tonight is my first night in this channel. |
| # | 02:29:27 | darshan | so that i would meet all of u in best time |
| # | 02:29:36 | darshan | ok |
| # | 02:29:42 | darshan | ur welcome |
| # | 02:30:12 | sndwrx | I would imagine that most people are in and out throughout the day and evening, US time. |
| # | 02:30:23 | darshan | ok |
| # | 02:30:42 | darshan | see this link |
| # | 02:31:03 | darshan | http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=evergreen# |
| # | 02:31:26 | darshan | here u will nicely knew who are actually online |
| # | 02:31:51 | darshan | and every one here is well master in all their way |
| # | 02:32:01 | darshan | so can gain much more help |
| # | 02:32:17 | darshan | but they at loggin at 9.00pm IST |
| # | 02:33:05 | sndwrx | oh, I see. |
| # | 02:33:49 | darshan | dats why i m in bottelneck condition as my time is totally opp to us time |
| # | 02:33:59 | darshan | *US |
| # | 02:34:31 | darshan | ok den babye |
| # | 02:34:43 | darshan | u should leave now |
| # | 02:34:52 | darshan | gn |
| # | 02:36:35 | sndwrx | Sorry that I'm no help. |
| # | 02:36:42 | sndwrx | Have a good day. |
| # | 02:36:53 | darshan | it's ok |
| # | 02:36:55 | darshan | thnkx |
| # | 02:38:14 | darshan | i am about to install ubuntu lucid lynx 10.04 ,ican i ne1 tell me, should i use server edition or desktop edition |
| # | 02:38:20 | darshan | for evergreen |
| # | 02:38:39 | darshan | server-side software |
| # | 02:42:01 | sndwrx | According to the Evergreen documentation, they acknowledge that there may be differences between desktop and server editions, and the walk-through guide outlines the steps taken on a server edition Ubuntu installation. |
| # | 02:42:11 | sndwrx | As seen here: http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/1.6/draft/html/serversideinstallation.html |
| # | 02:43:43 | sndwrx | But that is for Evergreen version 1.6.1.x. |
| # | 02:43:49 | sndwrx | What version do you intend to install? |
| # | 02:45:09 | sndwrx | Ah, this link pertains to the 2.x versions of Evergreen and makes a similar statement: The following steps have been tested on the x86 (32-bit) and x86-64 (64-bit) architectures. There may be differences between the Desktop and Server editions of Ubuntu. These instructions assume the Server edition. |
| # | 02:45:13 | sndwrx | http://docs.evergreen-ils.org/2.0/draft/html/serversideinstallation.html#serversideinstallation-ubuntudebian |
| # | 02:47:27 | darshan | at first as that doc tells |
| # | 02:47:41 | darshan | i m installing opensrf |
| # | 02:47:59 | darshan | Installing OpenSRF 1.6.x On Ubuntu or Debian |
| # | 02:48:08 | darshan | so i m with ubuntu |
| # | 02:48:10 | darshan | then |
| # | 02:48:31 | darshan | Installing Evergreen 1.6.1.x On Ubuntu or Debian |
| # | 02:48:51 | darshan | i m going as by that doc |
| # | 02:49:02 | darshan | nothing new from my side |
| # | 02:49:50 | sndwrx | ;nods. |
| # | 02:49:52 | sndwrx | er |
| # | 02:49:54 | sndwrx nods. |
| # | 02:50:05 | darshan | means? |
| # | 02:50:13 | darshan | nods means? |
| # | 02:50:20 | darshan | what do u want to say |
| # | 02:50:22 | darshan | ? |
| # | 02:51:56 | sndwrx | Sorry, it's like an indication of nodding my head in understanding. |
| # | 02:56:09 | darshan | kk |
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| # | 08:35:18 | test_ | hello? |
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| # | 08:42:29 | mrpeters-isl | has there been any progress made on https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/838525 |
| # | 08:44:27 | mrpeters-isl | more, has anyone tested eeevil's suggestion |
| # | 08:46:45 | tsbere | I have not touched his suggestion |
| # | 08:47:19 | tsbere | I could run a couple of queries, though, in our test DB |
| # | 08:49:23 | mrpeters-isl | part of me kind of leans toward going back to our original trigger i posted there, since it was working for us |
| # | 08:49:33 | akilsdonk has joined #evergreen |
| # | 08:49:46 | mrpeters-isl | but, on the other hand eeevil's seems more efficient |
| # | 08:57:25 | Dyrcona has joined #evergreen |
| # | 08:59:21 | Dyrcona needs to sign up for ESL classes, apparently. :) |
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| # | 09:19:21 | tsbere | mrpeters-isl: eeevil's suggestion? Probably bad. :( |
| # | 09:20:06 | mrpeters-isl | what'd ya find? |
| # | 09:20:28 | tsbere | The DB says my dob is correct. The staff client says it was a day earlier. |
| # | 09:20:36 | mrpeters-isl | yeah...fun |
| # | 09:22:51 | tsbere has a different theory |
| # | 09:23:50 | tsbere | Too bad our training system is a VM that is apparently unhappy |
| # | 09:24:39 | tsbere | load average: 18.76, 21.62, 16.78 might explain that... |
| # | 09:31:10 | Dyrcona | Fun with timezones. |
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| # | 09:34:41 | mrpeters-isl | is there a trick to hiding virtual fieldmapper columns in the staff client? For example, g.payments_list.init in bill_history.js is building the picker based on all of money.payment_view. I want to get rid of the virtual fields that display no data in the staff client. |
| # | 09:38:24 | sal_ has joined #evergreen |
| # | 09:40:47 | tsbere | mrpeters-isl: Updated the launchpad entry there with my findings. |
| # | 09:41:01 | mrpeters-isl | good deal. thank you for testing! |
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| # | 09:41:33 | tsbere | mrpeters-isl: All my findings are negative. :( |
| # | 09:41:36 | akilsdonk_ is now known as akilsdonk |
| # | 09:41:52 | mrpeters-isl | good to know, i'll let rjackson-isl know |
| # | 09:42:20 | tsbere should apparently be glad that he works with one time zone |
| # | 09:42:47 | mrpeters-isl | we just have a couple areas that are on central time |
| # | 09:42:53 | Callender has quit IRC |
| # | 09:42:54 | Callender_ is now known as Callender |
| # | 09:43:05 | mrpeters-isl | northwest/southwest of here |
| # | 09:44:09 | tsbere | I suspect that the problem is the system is treating things without a time zone as being in GMT, and then "converting" to local to be helpful. |
| # | 09:44:20 | tsbere | (for the without timezone and date tests) |
| # | 09:51:51 | eeevil | tsbere: the problem is simply that we need a way to say, per transaction, what timezone we want to /read/ in |
| # | 09:58:25 | tsbere | eeevil: "SET TIME ZONE '-5:00'" ? |
| # | 09:58:52 | tsbere suspects the issue is more the javascript on the *client* though |
| # | 09:59:53 | tsbere | In theory, the server should be using the same time zone all the time, excepting daylight savings time calcs. |
| # | 10:01:48 | eeevil | tsbere: we have a choice ... we can fix things in one place on the server (using SELECT set_config(...) where appropriate) or in all the places in the client |
| # | 10:04:07 | tsbere | eeevil: I am trying to figure out how to fix things on the server when as far as I can tell the server is doing things, and returning things, correctly, but then the *client* is taking that information and munging it based on the timezone it has (assuming anything the server hands it is in GMT unless it has a time zone attached) |
| # | 10:04:47 | tsbere | The "munge dob by a few hours with a trigger" method works when you are dealing with one time zone. But what do you do if someone sets up a single system serving multiple continents? |
| # | 10:05:16 | tsbere | (beyond tell them "Don't set up a single system serving multiple continents" anyway) |
| # | 10:06:11 | tsbere | More importantly, you might care about the distinction across time zones for some information, like checkout dates/times, but not for others, like dob. |
| # | 10:06:22 | tsbere | So a global catch all server-side won't be as much help |
| # | 10:07:40 | tsbere changed his local time zone 3 times in testing and saw things change locally, for the record, as for incorrect vs correct |
| # | 10:08:02 | tsbere | That is "workstation's time zone", didn't touch the server boxes |
| # | 10:08:56 | eeevil | tsbere: i'm in a meeting now, and i'm being extra terse, but i'm talking about the server being told what timezone to work in for any given transaction. its not just a global setting i'm talking about |
| # | 10:10:13 | eeevil | something much bigger, which i don't have time to go into right now, but this is a long standing problem, not something we've never thought about ;) |
| # | 10:11:18 | tsbere | eeevil: Then perhaps I am not sure how that helps the issue, then. The issue I am looking at is "dob is wrong when you look at it from the next time zone over" made worse when you strip the time zone and dob is treated as midnight UTC, then converted to your local timezone. When the sever hands you a time zone it does the same conversion based on what the server handed over. |
| # | 10:12:50 | tsbere | AKA, we are treating dates as timestamps, and timestamps are timezone-adjusted, so all of our dates are timezone adjusted. |
| # | 10:13:17 | tsbere | Which, to fix, I think means touching *everywhere we treat a date as a timestamp* |
| # | 10:13:17 | fortin has joined #evergreen |
| # | 10:15:04 | eeevil | tsbere: which is really only dob |
| # | 10:15:40 | eeevil | which is why I suggested using the date type, and slowly adjusting up from there if we need to |
| # | 10:15:54 | eeevil redirects attention to meeting |
| # | 10:20:34 | hopkinsju stretches... yawns |
| # | 10:21:03 | hopkinsju | If I want to change the default skin, do I need to do something somewhere other than apache conf? |
| # | 10:21:18 | mrpeters-isl | hopkinsju: change it....how? |
| # | 10:21:37 | hopkinsju | I've got a customized skin that I want to start using instead of 'default' |
| # | 10:21:55 | csharp | the 1.6.1-2.0 script found about 7800 duplicated authority records... does anyone have a magic spell handy to dedupe these? |
| # | 10:21:55 | mrpeters-isl | eg_vhost.conf i think would be the place to start |
| # | 10:22:26 | hopkinsju | mrpeters-isl: That's what I figured, but thought there may be a setting somewhere in evergreen that also needs attention. |
| # | 10:23:00 | mrpeters-isl | i think that'd be it |
| # | 10:32:55 | hopkinsju | mrpeters-isl: ... and it was :-) |
| # | 10:33:50 | Dyrcona is going to reimplement the friends stuff from scratch. |
| # | 10:34:10 | jeff | Dyrcona: cool. going from a spec, or winging it? |
| # | 10:34:49 | Dyrcona | jeff: working on a spec actually. i'll post it where everyone can see it later today. |
| # | 10:34:56 | jeff | Dyrcona++ |
| # | 10:38:52 | dbs has joined #evergreen |
| # | 10:38:52 | dbs has joined #evergreen |
| # | 10:41:30 | dbs | senator: I have experimented in the past (a month or so ago) with removing the fixed-widthness of TPac, and it mostly works. It would be nice to have an updated version of, say, http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:opac:template-toolkit:todos so that we can work together towards an agreed-upon goal, yeah? |
| # | 10:42:29 | senator | i think there is a newer version of that, or something similar. an outline of work yet to come. checking |
| # | 10:42:41 | dbs finds bugs + pullrequests help cement communication on common goals, but would be nice to have a concrete list of goals too |
| # | 10:42:46 | dbs | senator: oh sure, there's the release notes |
| # | 10:43:21 | dbs | but that's kind of the wrong document for tracking purposes I think: http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:opac:template-toolkit:release_notes |
| # | 10:50:49 | senator | dbs: yeah let's use the features part of that as the core of something new |
| # | 10:50:52 | senator | doing that now |
| # | 10:50:58 | dbs | senator++ |
| # | 10:55:20 | berick | you_guys++ |
| # | 10:57:42 | senator | dbs: http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:opac:template-toolkit:plan this is barely changed from the features part of the release notes, but perhaps you know best what, if anything, needs to be saved from the old todos doc and incorporated here? my thought is that we can deprecate the todos document after saving anything that's still important. |
| # | 10:57:59 | dbs | senator: i'd drink to that |
| # | 10:58:10 | hopkinsju | @karma you_guys |
| # | 10:58:10 | pinesol_green | hopkinsju: Karma for "you_guys" has been increased 5 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 5. |
| # | 10:59:24 | senator | dbs: unless there's already a launchpad bug on this very topic, and i don't see it, i'll create one just for ongoing layout improvements and link it to the new doc as well |
| # | 11:00:36 | senator | https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/857572 was where you've already done some work on this i see |
| # | 11:00:38 | dbs | senator: nope, my experiments were during my amazonian phase so I was focused on that to begin with. btw, I completely concur with your CSS cleanup commit stmt |
| # | 11:01:25 | senator | while we're talking about it, do you have anything outstanding in this area that's just waiting at pullrequest for a review/merge? |
| # | 11:01:36 | senator | dbs++ # let's clean it up |
| # | 11:03:25 | dbs | I have a number of outstanding pull requests, but don't think there are (m)any in the TPac area - will check |
| # | 11:04:24 | senator | does someone have the url handy for their favorite "show me all the pullrequest bugs" launchpad search? |
| # | 11:04:25 | berick has one tpac pull request, though it's not css/layout/visual in nature 856688 |
| # | 11:04:47 | tsbere | https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.tag=pullrequest&field.tags_combin |
| # | 11:04:47 | tsbere | ator=ANY&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on |
| # | 11:04:55 | tsbere | senator: tad long. :( |
| # | 11:04:56 | senator | knew that would happen |
| # | 11:04:59 | senator | tsbere: thanks :-) |
| # | 11:05:02 | senator | tsbere++ |
| # | 11:05:10 | tsbere keeps it on his bookmarks toolbar |
| # | 11:05:50 | tsbere | at least I use a client that says "oh, that was too long" and continues it as a second shot |
| # | 11:07:51 | senator | yep. autowrap.pl for all you irssi-ers who find yourself getting truncated |
| # | 11:08:03 | dbs uses http://ur1.ca/5f9q5 (sort by date descending) but same thing |
| # | 11:09:07 | senator | dbs: new bug here https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/878264 i'd add it to the new plan doc, but you're editing it atm |
| # | 11:09:14 | senator takes sec to checkout berick's bug |
| # | 11:10:03 | dbs | senator: sorry, added my TODO (replace config.tt2 with YAOUS's) |
| # | 11:10:27 | senator | tsbere: this is a bug where you had questions about equivalent feature for jspac. note in bug says there was going to be an irc discussion about it |
| # | 11:10:32 | senator | https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/856688 |
| # | 11:10:43 | senator | did that discussion happen? you good now, or are there still unresolved issues? |
| # | 11:10:47 | berick | arg, yeah, need to address that |
| # | 11:10:56 | tsbere | senator: gmcharlt commented that he agreed with me on that one |
| # | 11:11:09 | dbs | btw, Conifer may hold another TPac hackfest in Windsor in early December |
| # | 11:11:10 | tsbere | Beyond that there was no real discussion on it |
| # | 11:11:20 | dbs thinks there was more discussion in IRC than that |
| # | 11:11:23 | dbs will chck |
| # | 11:12:16 | tsbere | There was an overall discussion on new features in TPac vs JSPac, I think |
| # | 11:12:29 | tsbere | But not much more on that specific bug ;) |
| # | 11:12:36 | berick | if there are consortia where some systems use jspac and some use tpac, then making them both work is valid. if not, then there are lots of tpac features that jspac does not have, this is just one more |
| # | 11:12:54 | berick | and since it's configurable, no one is required to use it |
| # | 11:13:12 | dbs | Yep, some discussion here (and if we agree on general policy, then we have the answer for the bug no?): http://evergreen-ils.org/irc_logs/evergreen/2011-10/%23evergreen.11-Tue-2011.log |
| # | 11:13:56 | dbs | around 12:19:15 things begin |
| # | 11:13:59 | senator | dbs: cool re editing plan doc, link to lp bug added there |
| # | 11:14:44 | tsbere | My view was "features that limit things, like what org units the patron sees in a list, should be implemented in both, but new features, like sorting options, can be implemented only in TPac" |
| # | 11:15:15 | tsbere | The bug in question limits hold pickup locations. I think that should be implemented on both sides, as it *limits* what a patron is allowed to pick. |
| # | 11:15:34 | dbs | And gmcharlt said "yes, it would best be implemented in the middle layer" |
| # | 11:15:44 | berick | middle layer is not really gonna cut it |
| # | 11:16:15 | berick | we serve the org tree up to each UI differently and it redners the tree depending on the page-specific context |
| # | 11:16:57 | berick | s/differently/as a whole/ |
| # | 11:17:29 | berick | i don't know if we want to get into re-fetching the org tree depending on the context. it gets bulky |
| # | 11:17:45 | berick | jspac needs autogen field additions |
| # | 11:18:08 | berick | for this particular feature |
| # | 11:19:12 | berick is just blurting things out and will have to come back to this |
| # | 11:19:57 | dbs | git rm Open-ILS/web |
| # | 11:20:04 | senator | hehe |
| # | 11:20:22 | tsbere | That would be fun, watching all the javascript files hiding in there go away for staff interfaces ;) |
| # | 11:21:22 | berick | tsbere: my argument is that it only limits the orgs if you use the feature. if you only use jspac, the feature is not supported, so don't use it. however, i'm certainly not firm on that stance. |
| # | 11:21:51 | berick | i just need to carve out some time for jspac |
| # | 11:22:08 | dbs | tsbere: yeah yeah, go ahead and be pedantic |
| # | 11:22:14 | dbs | bastard :) |
| # | 11:22:46 | tsbere | berick: We are currently in a "continuous demo" mode for the TPac with several of our libraries. As it stands some holds can't be placed yet in TPac at all, which means those testing it have to revert back to JSPac, which means if we were to start using that feature (we have a couple we would like to flag that way, I am told) we would get different pick lists for each OPAC.... |
| # | 11:22:53 | gmcharlt | dbs: but being pedantic on this channel is so much fun ;) |
| # | 11:23:47 | dbs | gmcharlt: a taste of my own medicine |
| # | 11:24:08 | berick | tsbere: ah, so, "if there are consortia where some systems use jspac and some use tpac" is true! that's all I needed to hear ;) |
| # | 11:25:09 | hopkinsju thinks the acronum YAOUS only exists to test peoples ability to search IRC logs |
| # | 11:26:41 | senator | :-) |
| # | 11:27:35 | senator | so if the problem with 856688 is not that anyone needs it to work in the jspac per se, but that to have the tpac enforcing something on users that be easily circumvented just by visiting the jspac, then perhaps gmcharlt's suggestion about doing some enforcement at the middle layer can resolve this after all? |
| # | 11:28:04 | berick | senator: no, it sounds like it does need to be supported in the jspace |
| # | 11:28:06 | berick | er, jspac |
| # | 11:28:54 | berick | tsbere: what types of holds can't be placed? |
| # | 11:28:56 | berick | in tpac |
| # | 11:29:11 | tsbere | Last time I checked part and metarecord holds weren't yet there in tpac (at least in master) |
| # | 11:29:26 | tsbere doesn't check often, though |
| # | 11:30:03 | berick | part holds have been added |
| # | 11:30:06 | berick | mr holds still pending |
| # | 11:31:07 | tsbere | I also have to find some time to re-implement a few features that exist in JSPac that our staff want around but haven't made it into TPac |
| # | 11:31:16 | tsbere wrote the original features anyway |
| # | 11:41:46 | Dyrcona | berick: Does pending mean you are working on it, or it is pending sponsorship? |
| # | 11:45:37 | dbs | berick: could be added to http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=dev:opac:template-toolkit:plan :) |
| # | 11:52:45 | fortin has quit IRC |
| # | 12:03:06 | dbs | senator: collab/dbs/tpac-non-fixed-width is a tiny step, but even that makes a big difference - much more usable on-screen space for wide displays, and does a good job in most places with smaller width displays |
| # | 12:03:09 | hopkinsju | I think a kickstarter clone for EG feature sponsorship would be pretty awesome. |
| # | 12:07:58 | dbs thinks having more developers / writers / testers contributing to EG would be awesome |
| # | 12:14:53 | dbs | senator: of course there are still scads of inline widths and semiauto.css definitions that are affecting the display but it's a start |
| # | 12:16:10 | berick | Dyrcona: mr holds need sponsorship (unless I go nuts one weekend and just do it). |
| # | 12:16:16 | berick | dbs: will do, thanks |
| # | 12:17:36 | senator | dbs: thanks. mind if i take that and add some 1em margins to a few divs? i think having the text right up against the left edge of the browser window like that might look weird to someone |
| # | 12:17:45 | senator | well, it's a collab branch. i'll push a commit there and you can see what you think |
| # | 12:18:19 | dbs | senator: no, I don't mind at all, I think I said in the commit it clearly needs further adjustment |
| # | 12:18:46 | dbs is working on merging the used bits of semiauto.css into style.css |
| # | 12:20:12 | dbs | doesn't appear to be much, huzzah |
| # | 12:21:44 | dbs is inclined to just put the bits as-is into style.css and rename ".red" and crud like that after |
| # | 12:25:01 | senator | not against |
| # | 12:25:07 | senator | pushed my margin commit to your branch |
| # | 12:25:17 | senator | do we want to let this branch grow for a while or merge often? |
| # | 12:28:04 | dbs | senator: I'm inclined towards sooner rather than later, although arguably a lot of the pull requests are higher priority than this |
| # | 12:28:29 | senator | yeah i've just been looking at those, and... |
| # | 12:29:44 | senator | well basically i just have a lot of excuses for not being able to test many of them (no 2.1, no idea how to use sru, etc etc) |
| # | 12:29:52 | senator | but i'll try to pick a few where i can |
| # | 12:36:40 | dbs | senator: feel free to ask for a test case in the bug report (e.g. for sru, I could guide you through the URLs for a before/after comparison) |
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| # | 12:40:24 | dbs wonders if cursor:pointer is really necessary |
| # | 12:41:06 | tsbere | change it to hourglass just to mess with people's heads |
| # | 12:41:34 | dbs | generally that's only needed for js-activated stuff, and the whole point of tpac is to avoid js... |
| # | 12:41:41 | dbs | tsbere++ |
| # | 12:44:59 | senator | dbs: re cursor pointer, i vaguely recall that there's something that's built out of an image and link with borders such that it looks like button. that's probably what that's about. and it probably doesn't need to be kept that way, so i say feel free to change. |
| # | 12:46:13 | dbs | Yeah, I think we've killed most image-built things so far. It was probably intended for the buttons |
| # | 12:46:15 | senator | dbs: and sure, i'd appreciate a testing guideline on sru |
| # | 12:50:11 | dbs | hah, Indiana++ # racing analogies for conference tracks |
| # | 12:53:57 | berick | heh, nice, i can already see the "how to check the oil in your Evergreen install!" and "Hold on tight!" conf proposals ;) |
| # | 12:55:33 | gmcharlt | it's off to the bookcart races! |
| # | 12:56:00 | tsbere | heh |
| # | 12:58:47 | jeff | so, riffing on "the whole point of tpac is to avoid js", is there any objection to a tpac mode/skin/something that uses js in a careful "progressive enhancement" kind of way? |
| # | 12:59:24 | jeff | or is there another plan of attack for an interface that doesn't eschew js, yet isn't the current jspac? |
| # | 12:59:47 | tsbere | Feel free to add anything locally you want ;) |
| # | 13:00:03 | tsbere | I think the major goal is "avoid adding features with JS, period, everything needs to work with it turned off" |
| # | 13:00:06 | jeff | locally wasn't what i was thinking. |
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| # | 13:00:19 | jeff | right. the whole idea behind "progressive enhancement" |
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| # | 13:03:49 | berick | jeff: i think there is a lot of desire for what you're talking about.. we just need some concensus on how to do it. |
| # | 13:04:52 | jeff | sounds good. i guess i was just checking to see if i had missed any relevant concensus. thinking too far ahead, perhaps. |
| # | 13:05:24 | moodaepo | Progressive-Enhancement_Graceful-Degradation++ |
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| # | 13:24:11 | dbs | jeff: there was a thread about this some time ago - me saying "so, uh, dojo.js as a base for JS enhancements?" vs senator saying "let's manipulate the DOM directly and handle cross-browser compatibility ourselves" |
| # | 13:24:46 | tsbere | senator: Updated the age hold protection ticket with an explanation |
| # | 13:25:24 | jeff | dbs: that was the last i remember seeing. thanks for the reminder. :-) |
| # | 13:25:38 | senator | hey to be fair i wanted to avoid all but the most trivial dom manipulation |
| # | 13:25:41 | senator | tsbere: looking |
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| # | 13:32:17 | berick | dbs: hahaaa.. |
| # | 13:39:52 | dbs | senator: it's fun to paint you in an insane light though :) |
| # | 13:40:02 | dbs is plugging away at the semiauto.css replacement |
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| # | 13:47:05 | tsbere has quit IRC |
| # | 13:47:07 | tsbere_ is now known as tsbere |
| # | 13:47:16 | tsbere | senator: Updated the ticket again. <_< |
| # | 13:48:06 | matt_carlson has quit IRC |
| # | 13:48:28 | matt_carlson has joined #evergreen |
| # | 13:48:29 | senator | tsbere: ruminating |
| # | 13:48:51 | senator | (not literally. there's no grass around my desk.) |
| # | 13:56:59 | phasefx | :D :o :D |
| # | 13:59:21 | tsbere finds holds to be mildly annoying |
| # | 13:59:46 | mrpeters-isl | I took a stab at including the ESI report templates in the initial db build for clean installs. http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Evergreen.git;a=commitdiff;h=9c54468e148aaf6d73589cfd1b4e1051ad71b0d4 |
| # | 14:00:19 | tsbere | mrpeters-isl: That include dealing with any "they don't quite work right" issues? |
| # | 14:00:40 | mrpeters-isl | tsbere: i changed one's title, commented out the others for future revision |
| # | 14:00:53 | tsbere | ok |
| # | 14:01:12 | mrpeters-isl | i am going to take a stab at building them, but I don't understand nullability very well just yet. So i'll use this to learn :) |
| # | 14:04:07 | dbs wonders what kind of madness is meant for width="1%" on a table cell that contains two objects |
| # | 14:11:39 | dbs | I mean, I know what the display intent is, but it's still madness |
| # | 14:14:40 | tsbere | dbs: Graphical layouts are madness! We should go back to text only. ;) |
| # | 14:15:01 | phasefx | graphical text layouts |
| # | 14:15:30 | phasefx | with IBM-extended ASCII, of course |
| # | 14:15:32 | tsbere | In fact, lets just spit out the raw results of the DB queries. Make everyone learn to read dumps. :P |
| # | 14:15:40 | senator | ebcdic! |
| # | 14:15:43 | senator shoots self |
| # | 14:16:10 | phasefx thinks the character codes on the commodore 64 included color. One value would get you an A, another a red A :) |
| # | 14:16:14 | dbs | mock if you will, but this css sucks |
| # | 14:16:21 | dbs | css / html |
| # | 14:16:46 | tsbere | dbs: While I agree with you, please note that in part it is because I think css and html suck *in general* ;) |
| # | 14:17:21 | dbs | there can be clean html & css, just as there can be clean perl and php. |
| # | 14:17:44 | dbs | also, cows can have two heads |
| # | 14:17:53 | tsbere | Clean html/css, maybe. Still sucks. :P |
| # | 14:18:38 | bradl | dbs: does a two-headed cow wear a moo moo? /me ducks |
| # | 14:21:36 | gmcharlt | senator-- # we killed EBCDIC in ILS-land with the last NOTIS system -- let not the zombie rise again |
| # | 14:21:39 | gmcharlt | senator++ |
| # | 14:21:44 | gmcharlt | senator++ # balancing things out |
| # | 14:21:51 | senator | heh |
| # | 14:23:38 | tsbere | gmcharlt: Interestingly, while the overall effect was likely a +1, you likely didn't have a -1 to begin with. ;) |
| # | 14:24:10 | tsbere was around recently when we discovered that the bot only sees the ++ or -- at the end of the line, and includes everything before that point as the thing to be bumped |
| # | 14:24:20 | gmcharlt | heh |
| # | 14:24:23 | gmcharlt | @karma senator |
| # | 14:24:23 | pinesol_green | gmcharlt: Karma for "senator" has been increased 33 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 33. |
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| # | 14:24:39 | jeff | senator++ # thus, this has no effect |
| # | 14:24:41 | jeff | @karma senator |
| # | 14:24:41 | pinesol_green | jeff: Karma for "senator" has been increased 33 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 33. |
| # | 14:24:42 | gmcharlt | senator: so your karma remains flawless |
| # | 14:24:55 | tsbere | stupid bot karma parsing-- |
| # | 14:24:58 | jeff | and by the way senator++ |
| # | 14:25:01 | tsbere | @karma "stupid bot karma parsing" |
| # | 14:25:01 | pinesol_green | tsbere: Karma for "stupid bot karma parsing" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1. |
| # | 14:25:09 | jeff | @karma "and by the way senator" |
| # | 14:25:09 | pinesol_green | jeff: Karma for "and by the way senator" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1. |
| # | 14:25:10 | jeff | yeah. |
| # | 14:25:33 | jeff | so, we're all been holding it wrong. |
| # | 14:25:49 | Dyrcona | karma++ |
| # | 14:25:53 | Dyrcona | dogma-- |
| # | 14:26:24 | senator | haha, i'm much relieved :-) |
| # | 14:27:04 | Dyrcona used NOTIS for a brief period in the late '90s. |
| # | 14:27:40 | dbs | tsbere++ # btw, some of us have known that for years and years |
| # | 14:28:44 | Dyrcona | Computing sucks in general. |
| # | 14:29:01 | Dyrcona | As the Doctor said, "Computers are sophisticated idiots...." |
| # | 14:30:18 | gmcharlt | Dyrcona: the really funny thing is that if a different leg of the trousers of time had been gone down, NOTIS could have been the first F/OSS ILS |
| # | 14:30:42 | Dyrcona shudders. |
| # | 14:31:14 | Dyrcona | gmcharlt: You mean there is another reality where NOTIS is still being used and is F/OSS? |
| # | 14:32:00 | Dyrcona | And some version of me is probably hacking on it..... :( |
| # | 14:32:16 | gmcharlt | Dyrcona: yeah, essentially one where free software as a concept had penetrated the general zeitgest a little more quickly |
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| # | 14:39:27 | hopkinsju | Speaking of IRC bots... anyone ever visit #drupal? Druplicon is pretty amazing as far as they go. |
| # | 14:41:52 | dbs | zoia in #code4lib is much much smarter than pinesol. its karma plugin understands comments, thus undermining the passive-aggressive incrementing of somebody without actually giving them karma |
| # | 14:42:29 | dbs probably bit off more than he should have by wiping so much of semiauto.css. hmm. |
| # | 14:44:55 | jeff | dbs: thanks for mentioning that. i would have gone off and needlessly hacked on the stock karma plugin one of these nights. |
| # | 14:48:50 | hopkinsju | Yeah, that's a pretty fun bot |
| # | 14:49:41 | hopkinsju | I like Zoia's last.fm functions |
| # | 14:50:38 | moodaepo | dbs: I thought the source bot behind pinesol and zoia are the same...did the Supybot karma plugin get hacked to be better in #code4lib? |
| # | 14:51:05 | dbs | moodaepo: oh, ages ago |
| # | 14:52:05 | tsbere | senator: Any more thoughts on age hold protection overriding today? |
| # | 14:52:22 | dbs | moodaepo: https://github.com/gsf/supybot-plugins/tree/master/plugins/Karma |
| # | 14:52:25 | moodaepo might get the updated ones and replace our plugins |
| # | 14:52:49 | dbs | moodaepo: in that case, https://github.com/gsf/supybot-plugins/ |
| # | 14:53:24 | moodaepo | Right I remember coming across that a while back |
| # | 14:53:38 | senator | tsbere: i'll probably wind up merging your work unless something doesn't work in tests, which would be weird since it tested fine for you, but i do want to revisit this conversation about how to do all the event checking "Right" |
| # | 14:53:58 | moodaepo | dbs++ |
| # | 14:54:03 | senator | probably will ask eeevil for input especially, since he's behind so much of the holdiness. but he's busy right now. |
| # | 14:56:42 | dbs is going to toss this semiauto.css cleanup, take another clean crack at it more incrementally. |
| # | 14:57:43 | hopkinsju | @roulette |
| # | 14:57:43 | pinesol_green | hopkinsju: *click* |
| # | 15:01:30 | tsbere | senator: If you have a place I can dump it I can write up what I think *should* happen for hold overrides. (You can tell me to dump to the dev list, dokuwiki, whatever) |
| # | 15:01:43 | tsbere | Or make a new LP bug and point me at that (or have me make one) |
| # | 15:02:26 | senator | tsbere: i'd say we're roughly at the point where it's good to introduce a dev list discussion |
| # | 15:02:52 | tsbere | But the tracking of a LP bug may be useful too. |
| # | 15:03:01 | tsbere | Or community editing ability of a wiki page |
| # | 15:18:23 | phasefx | how scary/important would this be for backporting to rel_2_1? 7a4c9360fb48e3b17d503f59692aef7d509e7590 re: integrating unified vol/copy editor with Fast Add in the MARC editor. It's bundled with some other fixes that are vaguely defined as "robustification" (phasefx--) |
| # | 15:20:04 | phasefx | cherry-picks cleanly at least |
| # | 15:22:04 | senator | tsbere: sure. just anything to get a quorum of the knowledgeable people on the topic to start discussing the idea |
| # | 15:25:59 | phasefx is going to vote for not backporting unless folks run into problems |
| # | 15:26:10 | phasefx | re: fast add |
| # | 15:35:48 | dbs deletes 155 unused CSS definitions from semiauto.css |
| # | 15:36:50 | tsbere | senator: Threw an email to the dev list. Now sick of thinking about it. :P |
| # | 15:38:15 | senator | dbs: what's your plan about that by the way? those were generated from actualy style attributes that (at least at one time) appeared in tpac pages. their names aren't meaningful and many of the classes wouldn't be easy to apply semantically, but i thought of them as a start to getting rid of the corresponding style attributes in the actual tt2 files |
| # | 15:38:55 | dbs | senator: "my plan"? check the commit log on the collab branch |
| # | 15:39:23 | dbs | if a CSS definition isn't used, I'm not sure what you expect me to do with it |
| # | 15:39:57 | dbs | http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=d6557d0254c87eb009c7475c574279350333ffb2 fwiw |
| # | 15:40:55 | dbs | I concur with getting style attributes out of the HTML where possible, but that's orthogonal to getting rid of dead wood |
| # | 15:41:14 | senator | right i see that. but they were waiting to be used. the styles defined in each one came from style attributes that may in many cases still exist in tt2 files. many may not, as they were generated like 6 months plus ago |
| # | 15:42:29 | senator | example: |
| # | 15:42:38 | dbs | senator: sorry, i don't see any value in "waiting to be used". as the commit log suggests, I checked to see if any of the css definitions were in fact being used |
| # | 15:44:13 | dbs | is contentslider.css waiting to be used? because I'm about to delete that, too |
| # | 15:45:03 | senator | no, that can go. it's formerly used. |
| # | 15:47:01 | dbs | thanks. |
| # | 15:50:42 | phasefx | if an item is floating, it floats the whole consortium, correct? looks like there's no way to restrict that |
| # | 15:52:54 | tsbere | I believe that is the case, yes |
| # | 15:53:21 | phasefx | I bet folks will want to change that at some point :) thanks |
| # | 15:53:21 | tsbere | Although *technically* you can restrict it, kindof.....it won't float to a location that suppresses transits with where it lives. |
| # | 15:53:32 | tsbere | Or currently lives |
| # | 15:54:52 | tsbere half considered laying the groundwork today for "let different OUs decide on opac visibility of statuses individually" |
| # | 15:55:51 | phasefx brain melt |
| # | 15:57:03 | tsbere | I have already mentally mapped what I think is needed to accomplish that |
| # | 15:57:27 | tsbere | Originated from one library wanting lost items to show up when we have them hidden globally. |
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| # | 16:08:58 | mrpeters-isl | tsbere: complicating, i'm sure -- but I love the idea of more flexibility for those who want to be! |
| # | 16:09:23 | tsbere | mrpeters-isl: Unless someone (internal or otherwise) gives me a good reason to implement it I am not sure I want to. :P |
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| # | 16:09:53 | mrpeters-isl | understandable! |
| # | 16:24:48 | tsbere | mrpeters-isl: I am more interested in maybe doing the hold override stuff I emailed the dev list about. And not too interested in actually doing that, honestly. :P |
| # | 16:32:37 | dbs at long last adds a test scenario for SRU case insensitivity to https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/875819 |
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| # | 16:55:09 | senator | dbs: thanks |
| # | 16:55:16 | senator | i had negative results though |
| # | 16:55:23 | senator | bug updated |
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| # | 17:02:31 | dbs | senator: hmm. but you don't get those errors prior to the patch? |
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| # | 17:04:02 | senator | dbs: correct, i do not |
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| # | 17:10:09 | senator | dbs: with an adjustment i can get your tests to pass, though. does the amended commit at the head of collab/senator/LP875819-fix-SRU-qualifier seem to jive with what you meant? |
| # | 17:10:20 | dbs | yeah, I've already got a fix |
| # | 17:10:28 | tsbere wonders what went wrong where when running make_release.sh for 2.1.0, as his tests just now edited the readme to include the _0 on the stamp ID as part of what it does |
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| # | 17:12:47 | dbs | senator: I've force-pushed the correct commits to the branches in question |
| # | 17:15:55 | Dyrcona | @later tell bshum I will bug you about scripts for wowbrary. |
| # | 17:15:55 | pinesol_green | Dyrcona: The operation succeeded. |
| # | 17:16:31 | senator | dbs: definitely works now. pushing |
| # | 17:17:07 | dbs | thanks senator |
| # | 17:23:18 | dbs wonders why we have "Another Search" button in TPac, when we have a search bar and an "advanced search" button |
| # | 17:26:31 | dbs | two "advanced search" links, if we include the breadcrumb |
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| # | 17:35:26 | senator | tsbere: fwiw i have tried to test your branch a couple of times today, but keep running into other bugs currently afflicting hold placement in the tpac. i hope to get to it again tomorrow though. of course if you find other willing testers, don't wait up :-) |
| # | 17:38:53 | dbs | senator++ |
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| # | 18:15:09 | tsbere | senator: Heh. Go figure. No problem, if it isn't in there by Sunday then our libraries will just have to live without it for a few more weeks ;) |
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April 10-13